griff66 Posted March 1, 2010 Share Posted March 1, 2010 whilst working on the ferret today found a spent cartridge on the base is r 6 8 5 cant find a ruler other wise would measure it any ideas folks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Barrell Posted March 1, 2010 Share Posted March 1, 2010 More likely RG 85 meaning Radway Green 1985. Without a pic or dimensions it's a bit hard to be honest! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
25 pounder Posted March 1, 2010 Share Posted March 1, 2010 While working on my WILLYS , found a cartridge , under the fuel tank, very corroded so not sure what it was, but it must have been a very long term hidden under that tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willyslancs Posted March 1, 2010 Share Posted March 1, 2010 when we had our dodge we found white plastic rounds under the lip in the glove box. ( used upto 1980 by french police).. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlienFTM Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 More likely RG 85 meaning Radway Green 1985. Without a pic or dimensions it's a bit hard to be honest! I googled and found this: Thanks mate, that was the part I could not remember! All British made Radwell Green (RG on the base of round) L2A2 5.56mm Ball has been made to the NATO SS109 standard since 1985 As is most Belgium (FN) German (DAG) 5.56mm you may be issued with in the UK Here: http://www.arrse.co.uk/Forums/viewtopic/t=35433/postdays=0/postorder=asc/start=60.html About 2/3 of the way down. Luckily the apparent typo (references to both Radway Green and Radwell Green) didn't get in the way. Obviously not a definitive answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griff66 Posted March 9, 2010 Author Share Posted March 9, 2010 its over .3 inch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griff66 Posted March 13, 2010 Author Share Posted March 13, 2010 right have now fount two different calibre rounds in ferret largest one has rg85 on base case is 51mm long neck of case is7.8 mm internal so i guess its either a 30 cal or a 7.62 mm ? second one looks like a blank as end where round would be is crimped has rg90 on base and LIAI ,55 mm long o.d of neck is 6.5 mm any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveo578 Posted March 13, 2010 Share Posted March 13, 2010 The larger one is 7.62mm Nato and the L1A1 blank is a 5.56mm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griff66 Posted March 13, 2010 Author Share Posted March 13, 2010 so a sa 80 for the smaller one? and for larger one was bren, 30 browning and gpmg all possible for the 7.62mm ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Barrell Posted March 13, 2010 Share Posted March 13, 2010 Yep, 7.62 x 51 is the old .308 Winchester and was the standard NATO round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griff66 Posted March 13, 2010 Author Share Posted March 13, 2010 so that 7.62 could have been fired out of a bren/ browning/ and or gpmg? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveo578 Posted March 13, 2010 Share Posted March 13, 2010 (edited) griff66 so a sa 80 for the smaller one? and for larger one was bren, 30 browning and gpmg all possible for the 7.62mm ? As far as the smaller L1A1 5.56mm cartridge the SA80 and its derivatives are correct. The 7.62 x 51 also known as 7.62mm nato and .308 Wincester(U.S. Commercial designation) was used in SLRs and Envoy rifles. Bren Light machine gun conversions L4A1, L4A2, L4A3, L4A4, L4A5, L4A6, L4A9 and all GPMG derivatives. The Browning M1919A4 designated L3A1, L3A2, L3A3, L3A4 were chambered for 30-06 that is a U.S. 30cal x 63 cartridge this is totally different from the 7.62 x 51 cartridge And although Canada,Australia and Israel to name just 3 nations converted their M1919A4-A5 to 7.62 x 51 cartridge Britain retained the original cartridge, probably due to large existing stocks. I had a rummage around for some cartridges and pictured are L1A1 Blank and 7.62 Nato when describing a cartridge always in addition to a photo and whether it is rimmed rimless or semi rimmed, give a length from base to mouth and an approximate mouth diameter -approximate is just that, for example 7.62mm russian is actually .311in (7.89mm) the same as the British .303in. A good starting reference for cartridges is www.quarry.nildram.co.uk. Edited March 14, 2010 by steveo578 correction in italics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griff66 Posted March 13, 2010 Author Share Posted March 13, 2010 cheers chaps .i reckon as a cost effective ie. cheapest a deac bren would in 7.62 mm be a good choice for the my mk1/2 . can you get deac sa80? the hard bit is getting a mount for the bren. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griff66 Posted March 13, 2010 Author Share Posted March 13, 2010 steve thank you for the link to the site very interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveo578 Posted March 13, 2010 Share Posted March 13, 2010 I 've never seen a De-ac 7.62m Bren most De-ac are Mk1 (with the drum site) and a few early British Mk2 and these were not converted to 7.62. The 7.62mm Bren was based on Long Branch models (Canada). Long Branch production was modified to 1) simplify 2) facilitate use of an interchangable breach block for Brens in 7.92mm X 57 mainly for China and a few 30 06 (30cal x 63mm). In the Chinese and US calibre guns the breach block was modified to extract rimless cases - a back mod as ZB 26-30s were chambered for 7.92 x 57. In the end most Brens made were from Canada. Some Brens are supposed to have been modified to use the 7 x 43 round which briefly replaced the .303 in 1950- and then to 7.62mm x 51 so if there are any L4 pattern De-acs out there they may have novel proof marks showing 3 calibres- 303, 7 x 43 and 7.62 x 52. I don't know of any SA80 as De-acs as it is still an in service weapon it is unlikely- although there were some SA80 available in Canada as movie props. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griff66 Posted March 13, 2010 Author Share Posted March 13, 2010 as you can tell i was thinking of getting a weapon for the ferret that ties in with rounds i have found in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevpol Posted March 13, 2010 Share Posted March 13, 2010 SA80's do turn up, try milweb, but be prepared to be speechless when you see the prices :wow::wow::wow: Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveo578 Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 (edited) Probably one of the most useful sites to aid ID of found cartridges is stevespages.com/ nothing to do with me :-D, it has probably every cartridge of production weapons since about 1880. shows drawings of cartridges with accurate measurements. For example the three types mentioned in this thread US 30-06 .308 7.62 nato and 556mm Nato. note the difference in taper of the 30-06 and .308 -this gave problems when rechambering weapons, there were convertors for M1 rifles to 7.62mm comprising a chamber liner -but it didn't work well -often being ejected with a spent cartridge. Steve Edited March 16, 2010 by steveo578 addition Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 Sa 80 a good air spring single shot plastic BB one will cost about £50. Looks and feels , well , better built than the L85A1. Brens. The Ferret was in service so long you'd get away with a .303 Bren. The only real obvious visual diffrence between a .303 and 7.62 Bren was the .303 has a curved mag the 7.62 a straight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveo578 Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 In addition L4s have a revised flash eliminator similar to the SLR otherwise they are Mk3 build standard. With regard to the mount for the Bren on the Ferret perhaps there are some in the stock recently mentioned in Scrap Yard Relics thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john fox Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 (edited) Griff as you have already worked out a 303 deac Bren is realistically the only weapon you will be able to purchase in the UK without spending over £2,000 on a deac GPMG or SA80. I think I have only ever heard of one deac LMG yet alone seen one in the flesh, asides from the straigh mag (which could be bodged to fit) the flash suppressor is a big visual difference from the Bren and could not be changed on a deac as that wiould be interfering with the deactivation so illegal. Ferretfixer once said LMG have been retained in war reserve so not released for anyone to deac anyway. at the risk of opening a new line on the originality arguement, many people get away with deac 303 Brens on what is, in all other respects, a later equipped Ferret the BB SA80, or a wooden/metal dummy GPMG are very good visually and therefore of course absolutely subject to the VCR Act, so is a definite risk if in your vehicle Edited March 17, 2010 by john fox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griff66 Posted March 17, 2010 Author Share Posted March 17, 2010 cheers , yep deac bren 303 way to go ,just been lifting out r/h prop cover in ferret lots of fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stone Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 As an alternative to the silly prices here (!) it might be feasible to import a live SA-80 from the States and deac it here - they sold a fair few semi-auto variants out there to target shooters. Worth a try if you're going over on holiday, maybe? Stone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griff66 Posted March 23, 2010 Author Share Posted March 23, 2010 deac bren have been looking and seem to start from dealers at about 225 ish, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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