N.O.S.

As far as I know Chris (but I'm not 100% sure) the Federal and the Reo were pretty much identical except for badge - can anyone confirm? There was another of the C2 trio - Biederman - which had a few more differences mainly panel / cab detailing. A guy in France has I think a Biederman tractor (as yet unrestored) with two spare front panels with Reo and Federal badges so he can choose which it will be for the day! I have seen it but was in such a state of shock having seen his collection that i didn't take it all on board....

It's a Federal in all but badge :-D Yes Chris, that's the one and what lovely condition. Someone posted a link to a short video of it on here a few years ago. Is it part of the official collection or privately owned? And is it for sale? :whistle:

Are there? I've just re-read the entire thread Mark, and apart from a couple of comments to the effect that the driver of the Scammell can't be at fault if he was travelling at 25mph and was rear-ended, I can't see where anyone has made any attempt to condemn or hang the other party. He was either hit from behind by a fast approaching vehicle, or he pulled out into the path of a fast moving vehicle. Yes there has been discussion in general about the incidence of rear-ending, and yes by the most common cause, but from what I can see most posters have gone out of their way to make it clear they are not passing judgement or condemning the other party in this incident. In fact in the main it has been precisely about what you recommend - how to avoid such incidents, which considers the scenario of being hit from behind rather than pulling out into fast moving traffic. I have a set of those magnetic SLOW VEHICLE marker boards in the post thanks to one excellent post, and I am reviewing again my thoughts on movement of big slow vehicles on fast / busy roads. Whilst it might be our right to drive them, it is also our responsibility to do so with a care for others. It is easy to get complacent out on the roads, and discussions like this one - if kept sensible as you rightly suggest - can only be good for our own (and other peoples') safety. If as you suggest this incident may have a surprise in store concerning the cause, then it is even more important we eventually learn from it.

OK I'll take the bait :cool2: You are most welcome to your opinion, but having expressed it with so much - venom? - here's a response. I think your post gives entirely the wrong impression of what W&P is all about. I went on Saturday as a MOP - one of the great unwashed (although I was one of the Obluted Ones 'cos I took the precaution of stopping at the local Services before entering the carpark thanks to the warnings posted on here :cheesy:), and I went - not to see loads of MOP - but to see an amazing collection of military vehicles, owners and associated stalls selling all manner of MV related stuff. I avoided the market day stalls and the funfair, although I can fully appreciate (as I've explained earlier) why they are there, because they are something I could see any day of the week if I chose. I paid my daily due (£18.50) for the privilege without complaint, and appreciate that it was relatively painless for me but not necessarily for others. The people who brought the displays and vehicles and stalls were special to me, because they were the sole reason I and some of the other MOP went, and they were precisely what made the show what is was. They had obviously expended much money and time to be there. I didn't pay good money to walk around a field of MVs diluted by civvi cars, tents, transport etc, but I can appreciate that not everyone can afford one of Jack's small wall tents or a high density cammo net. Incidentally, I say some MOP because I could not believe how rapidly they were leaving after around 2pm - obviously not enough to keep them entertained, or they had little or no interest in MVs in the first place? As for your so-called public who had brought displays and vehicles - their effort may have been a bit diluted by some teething troubles with the show layout - but no doubt these could not be anticipated and sorted in the reduced time available for show planning on the new venue - which must have been a herculean task - and which having now come to light are bound to be resolved for a future show. I have always been under the impression that the show was and is laid on for the people who bring their displays and vehicles to meet up from all around the country and continent to share a week or a few days together, with the additional benefit of making it all accessible to those MOP who want to see the spectacle up close and further their interest in things MV / military - after all most MV owners / re-enactors like to share their passion with interested MOP. Rex Cadman has run with the challenge of laying on a successful show for both the MV community and for the MOP who want to experience the spectacle, and as far as I can make out anything he organises is done to try to make it a great week for those who wish to attend in a display / participation capacity, and to get enough MOP through the gates to make it financially successful. I wouldn't want to try to achieve what he has, but it wouldn't stop me from suggesting ways it could be better. But reading your post Lightweight made me wonder (just for a moment) if I had got completely the wrong end of the stick. As I suggested in post 253 the problem seems to be how to enable people in Enigma's position (I assume he posed all week in appropriate military gear and not MOP T shirt, shorts and ice cream?) to participate in the spectacle without having to camp in the back of a civvy car in the MV display areas. There's got to be a neat solution to that which will keep everyone happy?

Never suffered from hay fever until a couple of years ago (and then only very mildly compared to many) - I'm convinced it's the Oil Seed Rape pollen but also grass dust / pollen does it now. Worse this year as around us a lot of rape had to be re-drilled due to crap weather, so the pollen cycle has been been spread over a much wider period. How come we grow so much of the stuff anyway - always made do without it before. Used in loads of industrial products and pays a good subsidy I don't doubt. We'd be better off paying farmers sensible prices for the foodstuffs we really need. Rant over.

I can't quite see where Enigma has been specifically singled out for a slagging off, Degsy - other than by putting himself forward (all credit to you, Olaf) as an example of why people might need to take advantage of this opportunity (or loophole if you like) to obtain vehicular entry. In fact Enigma himself has further encouraged the debate by pushing people to argue their case against these civi type vehicles. To cut to it - there should be a better way for folk like Enigma, who are very active in the living history side of the hobby as well as running a military vehicle, to be able to join in the show without necessarily having to bring along an old MV. If anyone should be allowed to be an integral part of the show, he should by virtue of his track record (have a look at some of his exploits as described in past pages of this forum). Post 237 offered one obvious solution, suggesting also that civi vehicles should be parked in an appropriate area. I find the prominent positioning of these civi vehicles dilutes the military vehicle / machine presence somewhat, although it seemed to me in my brief walk around that people had gone to much more trouble to camouflage civi vehicles, caravans and tents this year. How about we limit further discussion on this particular aspect to constructive ideas? Was there an opportunity for individuals dressed in appropriate clothing / uniform to camp with a military style tent within the display fields at this year's show - other than being part of a larger display / group?

Just think before you give the answer - the only prize the winner gets is the privilege of buying everyone in the Clubhouse Bar a drink :beer:

Mmm - don't quote me on this and it is just my (considered) opinion , but since it falls outside the construction and use regs or whatever the current equivalent is, then if it did not originally have mudguards I believe you might be ok without. Take a look at all those vintage cars running around with no mudguards for example, or M5 bomb trailers for a wartime equivalent if you can find one (are you there, Tony Corbin??). Not quite sure who you would go to for an authoritative answer other than VOSA - but that avenue might depend on getting to the right person to start with.

Nice Ass. I always assumed UN bought fleets of new vehicles. Not always so - they have a buyer at the big car auctions who snaps up any quality brand decent 4x4s (e.g. Landcrusiers) with mileages up to 200,000 ish as they know they'll give trouble free service and are damn cheap motors. So they do not waste money in this respect!

and war :angry

It's an App3622a_zps77067437 :coffee: Oh how times have changed

Hallelujah! And the other point is - if what you go for coincides broadly with what the show is about then great - if not you're bound to find something to be disappointed with. In the case of W&P, I suspect that the show depends greatly on getting enough paying foot traffic. To that end you have the funfair and non-MV stalls which are essential if the family members with not much interest in Mvs are to be entertained. If a W&P were laid on to cater purely for the more serious MV interests it may prove to be a loss maker.

I don't think either vehicle came out of side road. Note skid marks above red dots - evidence maybe that the GMC was pushed sideways? Maybe GMC was on wrong side of road, realised and moved over to left at same time bus had moved right to avoid collision but bus then had to swerve back left trying to avoid GMC which was about in middle of road looking at skid marks (front and centre tyres - rear axle was unweighted by braking effect) - result as shown.

There seem to be several 604s in preservation, or at least waiting to be restored, in Europe or USA. But I only know of two 606 tractors though - the one which visited W&P and one in Switzerland fully restored in Swiss Army grey.

Very nice. For the record it's a 606 unloading an Autocar U-7144T. There was a Federal 94x43 at the show however.

How about we now flush the toilets issue away for another year, and move on to have a look at some of the more MV-related aspects of W&P? Here's a nicely executed piece of cab art - it sure is a great bit of CCKW graffiti.

Here is one sure way to resolve the whole ablutions issue........

King 6 volt ignition

Er - I bought her a box.....

I used the space behind Jack's tent stand to dump a variety of storage boxes before a bulk transfer to the car park (big thanks, Jack!). I did end up at the receiving end of one of his throw-away quips, namely "You sure you haven't got a storage box obsession, Tony?". Been thinking about that ever since, and you know what? I think I might have developed a storage box obsession...... Thanks Jack.

The 4-wheeler looks like a PORTER, but I cannot find a photo of this type in any of my WW1 rail book collection. Edit: Aha - it may not be a WD engine then!! Those Baldwins must have been worked pretty hard - it is surprising that they have been so little altered appearance-wise. The Hunslet equivalent is a much more aesthetically pleasing design!

Show us the 1946 Hudson Commodore 6, Bob!! (we read the small print too )

:thumbsup:

If a refueller chassis weighs something like 6 tonnes, that crane base could be as much as 10 or 11 tonnes :shocked: edit: no I don't think it would be that heavy, but a fair bit more without a doubt - certainly a couple or three tonnes more.

Smithy you must be right about the cab. Was the pic you posted the ex Cardington ballon winch truck? Same standard chassis as the refuller? I cannot find any images of a similar cabbed truck in the heavy crane chassis form though. Some army cranes with identical chassis but the cabs are oddball, so this could well have been a small batch for ministry / military use.