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draganm

Marder 3M build

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I don't think there is anything wrong in recreating a Marder; there have been plenty of replicas at MV shows in recent years when Stug or Pz III 'FV432s' and SdKFZ 222 '110 Landrovers' have fought it out with D-Day 'Hotchkiss' Jeeps.

 

If the replica Marder actually looks like a Marder that will be a change, and who knows might get used in films and look a great deal better than what the Germans were using in A Bridge too Far!

 

As a Museum Director I fully agree. What I do not like is when people rebuild and sell it as "original" when it is not.

Like this question about the Swedish TNH tanks that were built under licence, they had many details that were the same as the original Pz 38T but there were many details that were totally different.

These part are not original German and has never been.

If you use a Swedish roadwheel on an original Pz 38 T that is ok - still a Pz 38T, but if you use an original Pz 38 T roadwheel on a Swedish Sav m/43, it does not make it an original German vehicle.

Same as if you change the carburettor on a Willys MB for a Hotchkiss, still a Willys MB, but if you put a Willys Carburettor on a Hotchkiss it is still a Hotchkiss.

I have seen German field caps, made out of the cloth from German over coats, since you get a lot more money for a German field capthan for an over coat. Original fabric and original thread so it is hard to tell that it is a replica - but in my opinion it is a replica and should be sold as replica.

So as long as you are honest you can do what you like with your vehicle, but when it is obvious fraud I do not think it is ok.

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Having met John Phillips and his Stug 3 ausf. D this summer I'm quite sure he will do a really good job with the replica Marder build and not at some future date try selling it off as an original. I'll treat it with the same enthusiasm I had for the replica Polish TKS tankette I saw a few years ago at WPR; what a joy to see going round the arena! I remember the owner joking that the only original bit on it was the battered spare wheel on the back!

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It will yes look much better than a 432 stug (and they where much better than the seventies panzer mockups)

but a good example on how to bulid a replica tank with out butchering antoher rare vehicle is the recently build luchs in the US: https://www.facebook.com/Panzerfabrik/

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Beautiful and a replica, without destroying another piece of history. The Marder will probably look fantastic when it is finished but no matter how many original parts you put on to that Swedish chassis, it is still a replica. So why not make all new parts as they have with the Luchs. There's nothing wrong with replicas, most of the flying ww2 aircraft are, after all, just that.

 

 

 

Jon

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There was a partial complete 38(T) for sale in Norway back in the 2012, but that was, from what I know an original, converted after the war, in Norway, to a tractor, it is now restored and residing in Australia. The original turret came from one of the many bunkers in Norway.

 

I really don't understand the reason for converting all these Sav m43 and Pansarbandvagn 301 in to something they never have been, and actually (IMOO) wasting original parts, on a replica, these parts could possible have been used for restoring a better original candidate.

The Swedish vehicle is just as interesting.

 

Niels,

 

I would have to agree with you......it would have been just as worthwhile to save the Swedish APC. Ok not a WW2 vehicle but something equally worth preserving......

 

The topic has provoked some interesting debate on restoration vs replica's and the use of orignal spares etc.

 

I hope the Marder end product is as faithful as possible

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the Luchs is a beautiful replica, but I saw a number of approx $100K to build it.

 

Anyone know what the Stridsvagen sold for?

 

I bet a lot less than the cost of buying the road wheels, suspension components, drive and idler sprockets, and final drive separately, then cutting, machining, and welding up a chassis to fit it all.

 

You can nickel and dime yourself to death buying individual pieces

http://relicsww2.com/index.php?route=product/product&search=marder&product_id=739

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Here is the chassis before the conversion started, it was for sale on milweb in Germany

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I think its been said before that the only original bit of many recovered and rebuilt Spitfires flying today is their serial number! After all if an aircraft has been submerged in the sea off France, how much would really be fit for re-use; the data plate perhaps?

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Regarding the "Original" Spitfires.. Its the data plate and substantial part of the front bulkhead.. reality is that most of the big rebuilds use little of the original machine.

My impression on the Marder build was that he genuinely thought it was a wartime history german chassis that he was returning to its Original state. You can see where his tone changes when the "rivet counters " (his words) point out its never been a Marder.

Just my opinion and he did a super job on the Stug so am quite sure this will be jaw dropping too..

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Sounds very much like he intends to try and pass it off as original when he makes the comment "apart from the engine its all 100% war time".

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Well technically he is not wrong, the chassis is war time. Just in neutral sweden

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My impression on the Marder build was that he genuinely thought it was a wartime history german chassis that he was returning to its Original state. You can see where his tone changes when the "rivet counters " (his words) point out its never been a Marder..
I've been looking at the pics and reading the comments because I follow this build along with many others and I noticed any talk of the vehicle having been originally built in Sweden in 1944 are deleted. A little odd since you can scroll down the page and see exactly what it started off as. Oh well, Panzerbandvagn turned into Marders are listed as such in the surviving panzers web-site and not even cutting off the extra return roller will change that.

It'll be fun to follow regardless

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Try over 200K USD for the replica Luchs....That is what it cost, Randy currently has the supplies to build 2 more, and he is also working on the Pzr IV project, which will be newly made components along with new chassis in conjunction with a famous group in Europe that rebuilds and repairs Panzers...

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wow, $200K is a lot of cash, hopefully there will be many movie deals to recoup some of the cost. Panzer IV build will a good one to watch too. Looks like they're accumulating a good number of original parts too.

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It is a lot of cash, but when you put in the man hours and the tons of parts that were reproduced from measurements from the UK and Samur it was a helluva job, not counting the newly made track from Germany...all new reproduction road wheels etc..

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We have a group here in Canada that has built a replica M10 Achilles. They started with Sherman bogeys and differential recovered from a scrap forestry yarder. Not one genuine M10 part on the whole vehicle, complete replica hull turret and gun made from scrap steel...but a very convincing job. Problem being they have concocted a story about finding the vehicle abandoned in a Canadian scrap yard and have kept pushing the narrative that it us a "restoration" not a replica...in my opinion replicas are great, good way to get into what has become a incredibly expensive hobby...but misrepresenting replicas as genuine is simply deception and should not be tolerated

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Well its finished and been at war and piece looks very nice.

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Talking of selling his Stug D now.. 

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20 hours ago, lowfat said:

Talking of selling his Stug D now.. 

Should fetch a lot of money for it.

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