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Tamber

It's here! (Bedford RL)

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If it's expensive to have sleeved it would be worth asking around to see if you can find a new old stock one first. These master cylinders are still about at reasonable prices, although the later style is more common.

 

I can have a look at the one I've got down here, though when I mentioned it upthread I was more thinking of it for the servo parts - being a used cylinder, it's likely to be bad as well.

 

If you do get a new old stock one, try to get it from somewhere you can inspect before you buy, or can return it to; it's been my experience that they can corrode on the shelf.

 

Good luck!

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If it's expensive to have sleeved it would be worth asking around to see if you can find a new old stock one first. These master cylinders are still about at reasonable prices, although the later style is more common.

 

I can have a look at the one I've got down here, though when I mentioned it upthread I was more thinking of it for the servo parts - being a used cylinder, it's likely to be bad as well.

 

If you do get a new old stock one, try to get it from somewhere you can inspect before you buy, or can return it to; it's been my experience that they can corrode on the shelf.

 

Good luck!

 

I did definitely have an :wow: moment when I found out how much it was going to cost to have it sleeved; but we'll see if they have one sitting around that might be in better condition to start with, as they think they might. (Makes sense that they'd corrode on the shelf, too; so that'd definitely be something worth checking.)

 

Current thought is to prepare as if to have the old one sleeved, while waiting to hear any more info; then I can -- as my boss likes to put it -- panic accordingly.

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It would be worth asking Bernie Smith and some of the Bedford parts suppliers.

 

If I get a chance in the next couple of days I'll check the one I've got anyway, just in case.

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Tamber, I started to strip this cylinder but I'm struggling to get two of the mounting nuts undone. It'll probably be next week now before I can attack it again.

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Tamber, I started to strip this cylinder but I'm struggling to get two of the mounting nuts undone. It'll probably be next week now before I can attack it again.

 

No worries, thanks for taking the time to have a look at it. :)

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FR5IFY1.jpg

 

jYmoaL4.jpg

 

D4SbAPG.jpg

 

Dtsvl0f.jpg

 

There was lots of standing back and despairing. I do have a plan forming, though; but it's a few more steps back before I start to move forwards again.

 

The centre third of that rear cross-member(?) of the cab -- where the central cab mount goes -- seems to be solid enough; but the ends of it have completely gone.

 

And all the rot has been boxed over with unpainted steel, which was then plated over with yet more completely unpainted steel, then the whole lot painted over; obviously, this has made sure that it keeps corroding quite nicely, and great big thick carpets of rust grow between all the bits.

 

Just going to have to keep cutting back all the hack patches until I can get back to the original structure, and re-build from there outwards with fewer layers. The real worry is I'm risking having the battery box fall back out, as it's partially welded to the bit that I've been cutting out today. :-D

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its good to see your chipping away at it . its looking good keep up the good work . haven't touched my matador few a 3 or 4 months as its rally season so its nice to see your making progress

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Thanks doug; it is nice to occasionally have the feeling of making progress, though I must admit it's few and far between.

 

Still working on my plan of attack for the cab floor; it's an interesting puzzle to figure out the order things need to go in, so that I don't bring the whole cab crashing down around my ears.

 

I need to find my notebook, but I suspect my starting point is the rear cross-member:

 

  • The previous repair needs to be -- carefully, considering the what it's supporting -- cut back to allow me to clean out the original section, because it's full of rust flakes and other detritus. Once it's brushed out as much as possible, I'll figure out some way of wire-brushing it all and coating it with a rust passivator.
  • Cut the original section back to solid metal as much as I can. (So far, it looks like the middle foot or so of it is still good. We shall see.)
  • Shove a new full-width piece of box-section through the remains of the original (after coating it with something, inside and out, to prevent the same old rust traps.) and plug-weld or drill/pin/weld it in place.

 

 

Not quite sure how badly gone the floor is, except for the strip across the back, because it looks and feels solid from above. Perhaps the flaking paint makes it look worse than it is; though everywhere there's a patch, it's usually totally gone -- patch and all. I'm a little scared to attack it with the wire brush o' doom at the moment, though, it uncovers a lot, and some of that rust might be structural. :-D

 

Still, getting to do this while leaving work on Saturday was nice:

KnDytzc.jpg

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Well, my long-suffering wallet has taken another vicious beating; or, rather, it's been handed an "IOU" for one.

I got reminded that I needed to phone HTS about that master cylinder, this morning, when they turned up at work to deliver some parts.

 

It's been about two weeks, or so, according to the calender and my phone logs; but my de-sync with normal weeks (Mine runs from Friday to Tuesday... :nut:) makes it very confusing to keep track of what day it is... (But I still retain enough knowledge of what day it is to become Very Angry Indeed™ when other people's broken junk keeps me at work until 1845 or later on a Sunday. If I'm going to still be at the workshop at that time, I'd much rather it be my own broken junk... :-D)

 

Anyway; bizarro-time tangent over! They've assured me that the one on the shelf is in pristine condition, sans corrosion, has good seals, etc; so I've gone with that option. Time will tell as to whether or not it was the best choice to make; but, after all, it's only money, right?

 

So when that's turned up, and I've finished recovering from the bill, I'll resume trying to return the braking system to something that resembles functional; because stopping via Jedi Force-powers is disconcerting at best.

 

 

 

In order to reduce the sheer amount of effort required to move the wheel-nuts, so that I can fight the wheels back off and make another attempt at removing a drum to assess the situation in there, I've gotten myself a torque multiplier...

 

Best investment of £45, inc. delivery, I've made; I can take those wheel-nuts off with two fingers.

 

(The one I bought: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B011P3QQBW/?ie=UTF8&psc=1

For the price, I was expecting it to feel a bit chintzy; but I'm pleasantly surprised. I don't think I could even get the sockets alone for that price... :wow:)

 

Now I just need to get a better bottle-jack, and a nice beefy axle-stand. And some more money, of course... :-D

 

More updates to come as and when I break stuff. Or brake stuff. Ideally the latter.

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They've assured me that the one on the shelf is in pristine condition, sans corrosion, has good seals, etc; so I've gone with that option. Time will tell as to whether or not it was the best choice to make; but, after all, it's only money, right? So when that's turned up, and I've finished recovering from the bill...

 

Well, at least you've made progress. Out of interest, what did they rush you for it?

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Having the old one bored & sleeved would have run me £500, and the new one off the shelf is £530. I guess, at that point, it already hurts; so a little more pain won't matter. :D

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On a different note...

 

rywFks2.jpg

 

That's optimistic! :D It slams straight back down to pointing at E if I ground the wire out, so I'm going to have to have a fiddle around with the sender. May well be that I've managed to get the float stuck on something; or it's not making good electrical contact.

 

At least the gauge works, though.

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Having the old one bored & sleeved would have run me £500, and the new one off the shelf is £530. I guess, at that point, it already hurts; so a little more pain won't matter. :D

 

TBH at that price it might be worth looking at other sources first. Also make sure it's returnable; I think yours is the type with three mounting bolts that mounts on the inside of the frame rail, while the common one mounts to the outside of the frame rail using large nuts on the outlets. The one they've got might be the latter as it's more recent & common, and they may not spot the difference.

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I think yours is the type with three mounting bolts that mounts on the inside of the frame rail, while the common one mounts to the outside of the frame rail using large nuts on the outlets. The one they've got might be the latter as it's more recent & common, and they may not spot the difference.

 

Well, it's supposed to match up exactly with the one I took off; which was mounted on the outside of the chassis by 3 studs that have an outlet in the middle of them.

 

The particular bit of chassis that it came off looks like it's seen a lot of modifications and changes in the truck's life, though; honestly, it looks a bit like Swiss cheese...

 

So your comment about inside/outside mounting does make me wonder if that master cylinder was originally meant to fit on the inside of the chassis, and got moved to the outside so that the current servo could be used, or something... Pure conjecture, though. :)

 

This truck is a real head-scratcher, sometimes; and it would be nice to know a bit more about its history.

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This truck is a real head-scratcher, sometimes; and it would be nice to know a bit more about its history.

 

I believe the early posts identified it as ex-military - if so on the chassis plate will be the military registration number, chassis number and contract number. The first two of these will be enough to get you the "B" vehicle record card from the RLC Museum at Deepcut. This will tell you the units it served with - you can then find the relevant association pages/sites on FB/the web and ask there if anyone remembers it.

 

Not sure how to trace it's civilian registration other than perhaps contacting DVLA and asking for the details of the former owners - how many are on the V5C??

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So your comment about inside/outside mounting does make me wonder if that master cylinder was originally meant to fit on the inside of the chassis, and got moved to the outside so that the current servo could be used, or something...

 

Not sure, the early air braked RLs I've seen have the servo on the inside; it was moved to the outside later, but I'm not sure whether the change coincided with the later master cylinder or not so it may be original.

 

The point is really make sure it's the three bolt fixing master not the identical at a casual glance large nut fixing master, as I'm surprised there are any of the early ones left in the aftermarket parts networks.

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if so on the chassis plate will be the military registration number, chassis number and contract number.

There is a plate that contains all of these, indeed. 11 CE 32, 27659, and 6VEH/26215 respectively.

 

The first two of these will be enough to get you the "B" vehicle record card from the RLC Museum at Deepcut.

This will tell you the units it served with - you can then find the relevant association pages/sites on FB/the web and ask there if anyone remembers it.

 

Unfortunately, that's the point that it starts to fall apart. The RLC Archive doesn't hold a copy of the relevant B-vehicle card; or if they do have it, they haven't yet found it. (They do have a copy of the relevant contract entries, though!)

 

The closest I can figure out is that it started life as a GS with a drop-side body (unit unknown), then got retrofitted to turn it into a field artillery tractor (Supplement No. 5 to the manual covers the details; and I found what appears to be a Royal Artillery recognition flash.), but nothing that really helps me narrow it down to a unit.

 

That's all based off the plates and other little scraps I've found.

 

Not sure how to trace it's civilian registration other than perhaps contacting DVLA and asking for the details of the former owners - how many are on the V5C??

 

And therein lies another rub; it doesn't appear to have ever been registered with the DVLA. Apparently this was common practice up until about 1984, for vehicles owned by a garage for recovery work: "just throw the trade plates on and have at it..."

 

Not sure, the early air braked RLs I've seen have the servo on the inside; it was moved to the outside later, but I'm not sure whether the change coincided with the later master cylinder or not so it may be original.

 

I, honestly, wouldn't be surprised if the servo/master-cylinder set-up is not original to the truck; considering the wild abandon with which trucks were (and, to a marginally lesser extent, still are) shortened, lengthened, and otherwise modified!

 

The point is really make sure it's the three bolt fixing master not the identical at a casual glance large nut fixing master, as I'm surprised there are any of the early ones left in the aftermarket parts networks.

 

Duly noted; I'll be checking it over at HTS, just to make sure there aren't any horrible surprises. That'd certainly make things more ...interesting than planned. :D

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How odd!! Never drawn a total blank before. Dumb question perhaps - but are you sure you are reading the mil reg correctly - sometimes the stampings aren't too clear. ** CE ** is an early one - late 1950's at a guess as my Militant is a CL and that entered service in July 1959.

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Not sure, the early air braked RLs I've seen have the servo on the inside; it was moved to the outside later, but I'm not sure whether the change coincided with the later master cylinder or not so it may be original.

 

The point is really make sure it's the three bolt fixing master not the identical at a casual glance large nut fixing master, as I'm surprised there are any of the early ones left in the aftermarket parts networks.

 

 

The attached are from a RL parts book dated 1961 covering contracts 6/VEH/28027 and 6/VEH/KL/H/0594 Cargo, Dropside.

If these pictures show your cylinder and servo exactly, I will pass on the master cylinder number.

 

There is a possibility I have a NOS master cylinder, it is for a RL, but not sure until I look as to the actual type. It would be a lot less than you were quoted anyway.

 

regards, Richard

RL1.JPG

RL2.JPG

Edited by Richard Farrant

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The attached are from a RL parts book dated 1961 covering contracts 6/VEH/28027 and 6/VEH/KL/H/0594 Cargo, Dropside.

If these pictures show your cylinder and servo exactly, I will pass on the master cylinder number.

 

There is a possibility I have a NOS master cylinder, it is for a RL, but not sure until I look as to the actual type. It would be a lot less than you were quoted anyway.

 

regards, Richard

 

Hmm. The pictures of the servo and master cylinder seem like they match the ones in the workshop-manual I have (the air valve on top of the servo seems very familiar, anyway); but they don't quite match the ones I took off the truck, unfortunately. :undecided:

 

In those attachments, it looks like the whole servo and m/c assembly is mounted on 3-bolts from the side of the servo; whereas on my truck, it had that same 3-bolt mounting cast as part of the master-cylinder and the servo hung off the back of the m/c.

 

(As regards the price, I am wondering if the one they have on the shelf is one they've perhaps sleeved/rebuilt at an earlier date... We shall see what appears when I get to look at it in person; playing phone tag often leads to confusion...)

 

How odd!! Never drawn a total blank before. Dumb question perhaps - but are you sure you are reading the mil reg correctly - sometimes the stampings aren't too clear. ** CE ** is an early one - late 1950's at a guess as my Militant is a CL and that entered service in July 1959.

 

Asking whether or not I've screwed up reading simple things is never a dumb question; I do it all the time! First thing I check when something doesn't match up... :D

 

MLJwMsb.jpg?2

 

It would be nice if I could get a clearer picture, but that plate is obscured by a storage locker and even with my phone pressed right up against the back of the locker, I had to take two photographs and stitch them together to get the whole plate.

 

Late 1950s is in the ball-park, anyway; 6/VEH/26215 is on the books with a date of 27.9.57.

Perhaps this is one of those cases where the card has gone missing over the years?

 

In other news, some metal was cut out...

MLxK1xK.jpg

 

...the patch panel I made a while back, offered up...

oYcGVfX.jpg

 

I had originally intended to joggle the edges of the roof where I was fitting the new metal into, thus the holes for plug welds; unfortunately, the rot extended a little further than anticipated and the areas I intended to joggle turned out to be not substantial enough to survive the joggling. Next patch panel, I'll not bother punching the holes in it; and then I'll end up needing to joggle it and punch holes, probably.

 

...and welded in.

EaFYaMd.jpg

 

(Mid-process pic. It was beginning to get dark by the time I'd finished welding; and I was in a bit of a rush to apply paint, and get the truck out of the workshop, so didn't take any further pictures.

 

At that point, I had a repeat of the last time I had the truck pulled into the workshop: not enough fuel to start and run back to the parking spot. Thankfully, since I'm not running out of the jerry-can any more, I had enough left in that to refill the truck's tank and hurtle back to the compound.

 

I dread to think what an ear-bashing I'd get for blocking up prime workshop space. :D)

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Hmm. The pictures of the servo and master cylinder seem like they match the ones in the workshop-manual I have (the air valve on top of the servo seems very familiar, anyway); but they don't quite match the ones I took off the truck, unfortunately. :undecided:

 

 

 

 

Hi,

Shame it is not the right one for you. I think the reason I still have it is because I got it for an early RL, not realising it was different ....... had not seen the vehicle at the time.

 

Best of luck,

Richard

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On the registration front, have you tried the Bedford Owners Club, or the British Commercial Vehicle Museum at Leyland. They may have original build information, from when it left the factory. From that you get the date into service which will help the RLC find the record card.

 

I got my Militant timber tractor's history like this. RLC initially told me they could find no record, but having got hold of the original build and into service date etc from the AEC society and the BCVM, they could trace it.

 

 

Secondly, that workshop your in is a fab bit of vintage architecture, high roof and overhead crane etc. What did it used to be?

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Progress!! From that photo I got the full chassis number (RLW387659) and Army description - entering this into the RLC Museum Archive website got a hit. Ordered the paperwork for you , just waiting for their systems to talk to Paypal and authorise the download. Will attach the report here.

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Progress!! From that photo I got the full chassis number (RLW387659) and Army description - entering this into the RLC Museum Archive website got a hit. Ordered the paperwork for you , just waiting for their systems to talk to Paypal and authorise the download. Will attach the report here.

 

I'm afraid it's RLW327659! :embarrassed: I've fed that into their chassis number search, and I'm hoping that it turns something up.

 

Secondly, that workshop your in is a fab bit of vintage architecture, high roof and overhead crane etc. What did it used to be?

 

It used to be the carriage and wagon wheels workshop at the Horwich Loco Works; over a hundred years old, by now. It's even possible to see the remains of the mountings for line-shafting along the walls. We also use the unit across from the back of it, which was the patterns shop for the foundry.

 

My boss is on the hunt for another building to move to, due to requirements for more space -- and because it's really quite frustrating how much time we lose 'unpacking' the building to get stuff out of the middle of it that's blocked by other work. It's almost as if the shop was designed around stuff running through on rails, or something -- but it's apparently quite difficult to find a place that has a roof tall enough to tip a 40ft long tipper trailer to full extension, as well as overhead cranes, and space outside for storage, etc.

 

Also amusing is how the foremost old overhead crane in that picture is still running strong, a few occasional glitches in the retrofitted pendant controls aside; whereas the much more modern crane throws a hissy fit every few weeks and stops working in certain directions. The one right up against the far wall is unfortunately dead, and has been cannibalised for parts -- mostly bearings, since the modern maintenance schedule in is play: do nothing until it stops working, then run around screaming about how critical to the business it is and it needs to be repaired NOW. *eyeroll* -- to keep the other running.)

 

I'll be quite sad to leave the place, honestly; as much as it's a pain with the roof leaking so heavily, I feel quite a pleasant connection to the building. It just feels right and proper somehow, with those big windows, tall ceiling, etc.

 

Meanwhile, right next door, they've just about finished knocking half of the old erecting shop down; they pushed the old 50t cranes off the end of the track yesterday, and chopped them up where they lay. It's a crying shame, how we've let our industrial heritage rot.

Y4aFO6w.jpg

 

egnzQVA.jpg

 

04ER0e3.jpg

 

rrf4nAC.jpg

 

EAt9XXm.jpg

 

0NiW9wK.jpg

 

They're levelling everything they can, to make way for 1600 cookie-cutter houses, and some generic office buildings. :undecided:

I have an album of pictures (and, occasionally, video. Unfortunately, nothing from when they pushed the cranes off, I missed that. Though... they went, not with a bang, but with a whimper... well, a quiet crunch.) from the past year or so, snapping what I could as they collapsed it to nothing; because, by the time they're done, there'll be no trace anything ever existed there, least of all a huge part of local heavy engineering history.

 

https://goo.gl/photos/yb5CzaHbuZCWdJf56

 

(An effort was made to have the buildings listed, but it failed because the buildings are of "utilitarian design with a few special characteristics of craftsmanship or decoration”; and, on top of this, they don't have their original equipment any more, and there have been other changes such as knocking new doorways in, etc.

And then, I expect, people will turn around when everything's just vast expanses of generic shopping centres and identikit houses, and lament our 'inability' to produce anything, and how bland everything is... Ho-hum.)

 

*removes rose-tinted spectacles*

Such is progress, apparently.

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