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robin craig

02 CC 90 Daimler Ferret

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So this is not a restoration as it were more restorative to working condition.

 

A while ago this vehicle was being run up and it "caught fire" is how my co-worker shouted down the phone at me.

 

I deeply suspect that what actually happened is that the gearbox was not put back to neutral and it was started in first gear and left to run for about 25 minutes or so like that and took out the seal of the fluid flyheel after over heating it. there is a puddle of very clean oil on the floor of the hull.

 

There was a lot of what appeared to be be an oily smoke in the vehicle at the time of the event.

 

We have been ever so busy and are just now getting around to even looking at the problem.

 

We winched it up onto our tilting trailer of death (as we call it) and brought it from our storage location back to our main workshops.

 

We will only get a few hours a week to putter away at this as we are well busy as it is.

 

I am going to check the level in the fluid flywheel right away once the turret comes off and the decks come off.

 

I intend to pull the whole pack out anyway before we split it. Too much of an opportunity to have a thorough clean up and check of brakes etc.

 

Any comments welcome

 

Robin

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Good luck with it all. As a test, you could try filling the fluid flywheel before anything else and seeing how much it takes. That will tell you if the fluid came from there...

 

Cheers,

Terry

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Thanks for the thought there Terry, we have a small probe camera and were going to peer inside but the Mk1 option as you suggest is a very valid suggestion and thank you for that.

 

Hopefully the BV206 will go this week and we can concentrate on the Ferret, The BV is needed in service elsewhere.

 

I hope to get the turret off and get some prep work done but planning the pack out for the 2nd Dec work party night.

 

Anyone else have any suggestions? Richard?

 

Robin

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Anyone else have any suggestions? Richard?

 

 

 

Sounds like the classic driver error, put gear lever in neutral but forget to engage it. The flywheel is trying to drive the gearbox but brake is on, oil overheats, cooks seal and emits a fine white mist like smoke. The unwritten rule was, if it takes more than a pint to top up flywheel, pull the gearbox out. It is best to dismantle flywheel because I have seen them where the driven member has got so hot it has expanded and picked up on the periphery of it. Also the gasket may have suffered with the heat. If we were just doing the seal, it was not necessary to remove the engine, but if you want to go further that is your choice.

 

regards, Richard

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Thanks for the advice and comments Richard. You pretty much nailed it on the head as to what happened to my poor co worker.

 

We want to take the opportunity and pull the pack for a number of reasons, cleaning the vehicle is one and not knowing what the brake lines are like is another. Having full confidence in the level of the work done is what we would like.

 

Its been a hard year on the vehicle front for us at work, lowest serviceable level in years sadly. Disposing of some vehicles is now helping create space and lessen the load.

 

Robin

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Its been a hard year on the vehicle front for us at work, lowest serviceable level in years sadly. Disposing of some vehicles is now helping create space and lessen the load.

 

Robin

Robin, how many vehicles do you shepherd?

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So,

 

Last night we went hammer and tongs at the the Ferret and within a short number of hours we had it to the point that next week (we do this on Wednesday nights only) we will suck out all of the fuel from the tank and pull that and then pull the power pack.

 

This vehicle will be the first petrol (gas) vehicle tht we are going to convert and rig for running on an external fuel tank. We have made the decision that not enough mileage is being done and petrol degrades so darn fast these days that we will substitute some fabricated parts for the OEM ones and slide them into the fuel system set up so that we have a quick disconnect for a small tank to be mounted externally on the jerry can mounts on the rear. The exact routing of the hoses etc is yet to be decided.

 

Frankly, Ferrets are one of the easiest vehicles to work on for me and one of the ones that I have the most familiarity with. Having a nice dry well lit workshop doesn't hurt either. The mystery that is a Ferret is quite a thing of the past for me in so many ways, my mate Gerry our resident mechanic teaches me something new but I am turning into a well rounded apprentice. Somehow the weel rounded bit has more to do with my lady and her cooking than anything else but dont tell her that!

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We use ziplock style bags and label the bags and then zip tie them to the items as we take things apart.

 

It is a discipline that we have learned as it may be a while before things go back together, often longer than we want or planned but with this system we are covered.

 

We also use crates for parts so we can close them up and put everything away at short notice if another project gets dumped in our laps.

 

As you can see by the detail shot the mice have been in this vehicle, the bane of my life darn mice.

 

We have found a spray for storage of vehicles with an inhibitor smell built in so we shall see if that works

 

So this is where it sits until next week.

 

And for datadawg, just outside of the shot was a Land Rover Wolf, just for you.

 

Robin

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What the hell would mice want to do or find to eat next to a gear box??

And as to the fuel degrading, forgive my naivete, but what happens when it degrades and how long must pass before this occurs? I have a Cadillac CTS-V that sat probably 5 months last winter and it showed no problems when I started it after its hibernation. I gather the Rolls B engine can't be compared with modern motors, but for the old gear, would adding fuel stabilizer help?

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Interestingly (or maybe not :) ) when I picked up my ferret earlier this year it had not been started or moved in several years, it had quarter tank of petrol. I added five litres of new petrol and it started and ran fine after a bit of smoking...which amazed me.

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Interestingly (or maybe not :) ) when I picked up my ferret earlier this year it had not been started or moved in several years, it had quarter tank of petrol. I added five litres of new petrol and it started and ran fine after a bit of smoking...which amazed me.

Apropos of nothing, I drove 02 CC 76 in 1978, mark 1, Larkspur rebro. Until I passed my Control Signaller at Bovington and was moved to the back of a Saracen ACV. I think we might also have had 02 CC 74. Or maybe I had 74? Whatever.

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I feel like my thread is going off topic and wandering here.

 

R

Yup, the last mostly on topic post was mine, but no one has yet responded :-)

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I am a bit behind but anyway, last week we used an electric pump to drain down the fuel tank before pulling it out. This fuel tank had the rubber mounting points sheared. This is the third vehicle I have worked on that this has happened to, so obviously everyone should be suspicious of their integrity now that they are this old. Glad we found that.

 

Once the tank was out it was the usual process, yes it does get a lot easier when you do a job for the umpteenth time rather than the mystery of the first time. I have to say I am getting a bit blase about it and it instills confidence that I may actually be learning something and doing my own Ferret will be easy.

 

So, the handy lifting frame I made years ago came out and into service under a tractor this time and up and back and trunions removed and out we came.

 

We will split the power pack this week and then stop for Christmas. If all goes well then I hope we will be back together and running in February some time.

 

Robin

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It looks like whoever did the tidy up in the UK used Detroit diesel Alpine green for paint. Is anyone here willing to admit working on this one at Withams before export?

 

Robin

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Hi Robin. Interesting thread. The engine and gear box look relatively clean or repainted. Have they been recently serviced? Have you taken apart the fluid flywheel as yet?

 

Merry Christmas and Best Wishes for the New Year!

 

Cheers, Terry.

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Terry,

 

The vehicle had little use since being here, the fuel pump caused issues a while ago and it is always kept fairly clean.

 

We split the power pack last night and lots of photos and comments to come over the coming few days, Christmas duties take priority I am told.

 

It is not as scary as you might think.

 

Happy Christmas

 

Robin

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I have to say the Ferret and the other vehicles that use a fluid flywheel have an aura of gloom and doom surrounding the fluid flywheel and the woes of it's repair.

 

This is well justified in the amount of work needed to get at it but the object itself is very robust and is very easily re=buildable by owners with a small amount of tools. If you compare it to a sealed torque converter in a modern automatic then I personally say the fluid flywheel is a superior piece of kit, but then I am not a mechanic or an engineer just an enthusiastic amateur.

 

We had the engine supported on the skid on blocks and rigged the gearbox on the shop crane.

 

The two were split and then the fluid drained as best as we would.

 

Comparing the colour of the pieces you can see the result of the overheat event. The fill plug showed no signs of any fluid and there was scant remnants left and it was very murky.

 

We could have replaced the seal without taking the whole unit off the engine as it is supported at the back on a bearing inside the flywheel portion but we suspected that bearing should for prudence sake be replaced at the same time and after getting at it we were satisfied that we were making the right decision.

 

Robin

Ferret Repair 24.jpg

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We don't have the best wash down facilities and we had been short shipped a bearing so we took the basic pieces into town and cleaned them there and put it back together. It is a simple assembly and we wanted to use a press for the inner bearing to get it off.

 

There is a washer that we flipped over as the John Deere seal we used need clearance that the spacer washer does not allow but has not effect on anything else (we believe).

 

Things were all cleaned down and then bagged and we will refit in the New Year as we are on holidays at the moment.

 

Honestly, this is a job that anyone can do and should not be considered a deal maker. The parts total are less than $75 for the two bearings and the seal.

 

The manuals we use are always photocopied and laminated before going into the shop, that is our SOP now to ensure the cleanliness of the manuals long term.

 

Robin

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The washer that you flipped over has a lip on it that is there to support the seal.Does the John Deere seal not require this?

I have replaced old oil seals in the past & have found that the new seals come with a second 'wiper' ring behind the main sealing ring. This is what prevents fitting of the support washer the correct way. It is usually possible to source the correct 'old style' seal so that the support washer can be fitted the correct way round. Is this seal now not available for the ferret? I only ask as I havd a Mk 2/3 that may well need this type of attention in the next year.

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