Buying advice: Bedford MJ

[Anthony]

Hi, this is my first post so I hope I have got the right place and the right forum

 

I am thinking of buying a Bedford MJ as the basis for an overland trip and would appreciate any advice. Up until I saw one last week I was convinced that the trip would be Land rover based. Looking at this and other forums is helping to convince me.

 

First question: what needs to be done (if anything) to make a standard ex-military MMMm road legal. eg does it need those barriers that stop vehicles going under them.

 

Second question: what is involved in "down-pating" from 10 tons to 7.5 tons

 

Third question: in the conversion to a motor caravan I (understand that I)will need to have a "torsion compensating" platform. Can you recommend someone to do this. Any lessons learnt would be very helpful.

 

Fourth question: is there anyone near me (just outside Grantham) that would help me look the vehicle over before purchase (if I decide to do it). Also anyone prepared to help a (complete) novice get to grips with the mechanics.

 

Cheers

 

trying to learn from other peoples successes

[Stone]

Hi Anthony,

 

This is fresh in my mind as I've just sorted out registering our MJ Hopefully I won't ramble too much.

 

Basically, when you get your MJ (assumption: from Withams, given your location) you'll end up with the vehicle and a flimsy blue A4 sheet called a MOD Form 654 (Application for Disposal of a Cast Vehicle). Whatever you do don't lose this - it's the only proof of the age of your vehicle and you'll end up with a Q plate if you don't have it. Get the Bedford home on a flatbed and stick a drip tray under the engine - it'll probably be there a few weeks while the DVLA sort things out.

 

First get the vehicle insured. This will have to be through the chassis number since it doesn't have a registration number yet - most insurers will only cover it for 1-2 weeks on a chassis number so you might want to make sure you have everything in place before doing this. We have a blanket company insurance policy that covers any vehicle owned by the company, so we didn't do anything special here.

 

Next get yourself to your local DVLA office - probably Peterborough. You'll need a form V55/5 from them (application for a first licence for a motor vehicle and declaration for registration). They have them sat in racks at my local office so you probably want to take a couple in case you mess one up.

 

If you want to claim exemption from plating and testing you'll also need a V112G form - you can download these from the DVLA website (here) and fill it in in advance - pick your exemption category and you're signing to say that you don't need an MOT for one of the stated reasons. (we fitted into exemption 14, but you probably won't). If not you'll need to get an MOT from an HGV testing centre.

 

Fill out your V55/5. There's an example here (filled in for a kit car, but you can see the fields). If you have the 'Purpose and Planning' document it's really helpful for filling the fields in (if not, PM me and I'll send you a copy). Salient points:

 

Tax class: Private HGV

Make: Bedford

Model: Truck 4x4 Fixed Platform 4t W/Turbo Eng

Wheelplan: 2 Axle Rigid

Fuel type: Heavy Oil

Cylinder capacity: 5400cc

Maximum Permissible Mass: 9650kg

Year of Manufacture: 1985ish (on the Form 654)

Leave all the other fields blank - when you get to the desk the clerk will help you fill it in (more so if you've tried to help them out by filling in as much as possible first).

 

At the local office you need the following:

 

- Your photocard driving licence

- Your MOD Form 654

- Your completed V55/5

- Your V112G if appropriate or MOT cert if not

- Your insurance certificate

- £55 for the first registration fee

- More money for the first 6 months / 1 year of road tax (£120 for private HGV)

- Pictures rarely hurt

- Any extra documentation you have, like the purpose and planning booklet from the manual which has all the details of brake type etc in it.

 

We didn't fit side-impact bars - ask if you want to, but we showed them pictures and they didn't seem worried when registering it. Each local office varies, as per usual :-|

 

Once you've handed everything in you should get back a receipt within 7-10 days with a tax disc and Registration Authorisation Certificate attached - this lets you go and get number plates made up. Once they're attached and the tax disc is on display you're road legal - just have to wait for the V5C in the post.

 

At this point you can only drive it if you have Category C on your driving license. Find a friend who does, and get them to accompany you to a weighbridge for a split ticket - you want the unladen axle weights. (usually they'll give you the full weight as well for the same price). Send the ticket off to SV Tech along with £350ish and they'll do the paperwork and send you some metal plates - these bolt onto the suspension endstops to slightly reduce the suspension travel and thus the maximum load. They'll then sort out the paperwork with the DVLA and once the new V5C is issued with the correct weight on (and you have a new dataplate stamped and riveted in place) you can drive it on a C1 license. (note: we needed the extra cargo capacity so didn't do this, but we did look into it)

 

Also note you may need a tachograph fitted if you don't meet one of the exemptions - the rules are very complicated so I won't muddy the waters, but it's definitely something to check up on.

 

Not sure about the body torsion thing - I definitely wouldn't fit a Luton style body to it (as the bed is rigid but twists relative to the cab when going cross-country). You might want to take the easy way out and just convert a comms box body internally - they have a fair bit of internal space, and you know the work's been done already to make sure it won't fall off the vehicle! If you're not confident with what to do when it breaks down I would be a bit wary of taking it too far off the beaten path though, to be honest. Maybe the land rover isn't such a bad idea?

 

Hope that helped, anyway

 

Stone

[Stormin]

Stone is spot on.

 

I did exactly the same thing with mine direct from Whitam's. Only thing i'm not sure of is the Test exempt. I got mine tested at local SVA costing £50 before down plating.

 

He forgot to add cry :cry: when you see what you get from SVTech for your £350, four bits of metal plate about £10 worth.

 

If you are thinking of putting a box body on and lots of kit watch the weight. Downrating only leaves you 1900kg of load capacity. That could quite easily be eaten up with expedition equipment.

 

Are you sure you want to use an MJ? Thirstier by double than a diesel Land Rover, slower than all but the most knackered Land Rover (56mph tops). Heavier steering than any Land Rover and much much harder to recover if it gets stuck off-road.

 

Have you actually driven an MJ yet?

[Stormin]

If you are mounting a body on it should be a case of putting a three point mounting for it on the exsiting chassis.

 

Unimog's are popular with overlanders as they already have this system for body mounting. Not too mention bombproof mechanicals.

 

The plus side of the MJ is you can't really get any more simple mechanically.

[Anthony]

Thanks for the replies.

 

Stone: thanks for the detail here. Withams' were less than clear !

 

Stormin: I take all your points on the benefit of a Landrover. The problem is that I don't think my wife will be happy with the rudimentary facilities. The thing that appeals with the MJ is the available space on top of a capable body but no electronics.

 

And "no" I haven't driven one yet. Need to find a friendly owner as witham's are not able to be helpful here. I see many privately owned ones have been fitted with power assisted steering.

 

Making the choice is extremely difficult. And whichever vehicle I choose I will have to learn how to maintain it.

 

Many thanks for all your comments.

[paulob1]

the MJ is not the most comfortable of trucks, a lot of people have tried the Mog route and they do work well, I have seen a lot of people converting urals and zils as expedition vehicles and with 6 wheel drive and mega winches they are very of road capable as well as very very comfy for such a big truck....can still get stuck though so do watch out, they dont have diff locks and this can mean being bogged down if you really go into boggy areas...the CTIS however helps immensley with getting you out of sticky situations (central tyre inflation system) anyway definitely worth a look...

[Gareth Coe]

Unimog's are popular with overlanders as they already have this system for body mounting. Not too mention bombproof mechanicals.

 

Yes, I'd recommend a Unimog too (no surprises there then )

Lots of 'em have box bodies on the back already, and when it comes to overlanding they're the standard by which all others are measured.

 

Arrange a test-drive in a Bedford first. Have a good look around and see what else is available. Come to a vehicle show and have a look at the different machines - ask the owners (that's us :-D) questions - see how easy/difficult it is to get in and out of the cabs etc.

 

Have a look on www.milweb.net too

 

Gareth

[Stone]

Oh, I also should have added it'll take an extra 4-5ish weeks to get it registered if the Army wrote the chassis number down wrong on the Form 654 :argh: We got Withams to arrange a replacement and that came back with the same mistake on it...in the end we got a letter confirming the correct chassis number and date in service from the nice folks at the MoD's Defense Equipment & Support section which served in addition to our Form 654. If you get this wrong you end up registering and taxing a vehicle that doesn't exist, so if you get stopped and have your documents checked, you can end up being done for being untaxed and thus uninsured and have the vehicle confiscated :shake:

 

To be honest the MJ is pretty uncomfortable to drive around - we got one because we specifically needed it but if you have half a chance of getting something more suitable for off-roading I'd go for that. Certainly without power steering I can barely steer it when stationary, I dread to think what it'd do in rutted ground. Probably not much :-D

 

Hope that's some food for thought, anyway.

 

Stone

[snowtracdave]

What Gareth said .....:-D....It might be worth having a look at the UK Unimog owners website - quite a few pictures on there of vehicles which have been converted for expedition use & also a couple of contacts for suppliers of relevant bits & pieces .

 

NB - when the Man from The Ministry came to our yard for an inspection a while ago he spotted one of my Mogs in the corner and said - "oh yes , fantastic vehicles , go absolutely anywhere . Mind , you need to take your tools with you because once they get you there they'll probably break down before you come back "

[sabre]

Have a look at:

 

http://www.overafrica.org/home.aspx

 

They are doing an overland trip with a leyland daf 4 tonner.

 

Lots of info on both vehicle and trip!

 

Piet

[Stormin]

Oh, I also should have added it'll take an extra 4-5ish weeks to get it registered if the Army wrote the chassis number down wrong on the Form 654 :argh: We got Withams to arrange a replacement and that came back with the same mistake on it...in the end we got a letter confirming the correct chassis number and date in service from the nice folks at the MoD's Defense Equipment & Support section which served in addition to our Form 654. If you get this wrong you end up registering and taxing a vehicle that doesn't exist, so if you get stopped and have your documents checked, you can end up being done for being untaxed and thus uninsured and have the vehicle confiscated :shake:

 

To be honest the MJ is pretty uncomfortable to drive around - we got one because we specifically needed it but if you have half a chance of getting something more suitable for off-roading I'd go for that. Certainly without power steering I can barely steer it when stationary, I dread to think what it'd do in rutted ground. Probably not much :-D

 

Hope that's some food for thought, anyway.

 

Stone

 

Seem to remember my form 654 had the wrong chassis number on as well (from Withams). One digit entered twice or something similar. I put correct chassis number on forms at DVLA and didn't have any trouble they mustn't have noticed the slight error. :whistle:

 

I wouldn't say the MJ was uncomfortable but then I've had leaf sprung Land Rovers aplenty. Steering is almost unmovable whilst stationary but not that bad once moving even slowly. No need to go to the gym if driven regularly. Why would you really need to be steering whilst stationary anyway?

[Stone]

Seem to remember my form 654 had the wrong chassis number on as well (from Withams). One digit entered twice or something similar. I put correct chassis number on forms at DVLA and didn't have any trouble they mustn't have noticed the slight error. :whistle:

Lucky you! :-D Ours had an extra zero in it - should have been obvious since all chassis numbers have only 17 digits but oh well...

 

I wouldn't say the MJ was uncomfortable but then I've had leaf sprung Land Rovers aplenty. Steering is almost unmovable whilst stationary but not that bad once moving even slowly. No need to go to the gym if driven regularly. Why would you really need to be steering whilst stationary anyway?

Think it depends on exactly which Bedford - our Ptarmigan one seems to be missing all the seat adjustments (the seats are just bolted straight down). You're right, shouldn't need to steer from stationary but I'm rubbish at parking :coffee:

 

Stone

[Gareth Coe]

Ha ha! But which has the smaller turning circle: Bedford or Land Rover? :nut:

[Tony B]

Ha ha! But which has the smaller turning circle: Bedford or Land Rover? :nut:

 

Trick question! Neither, they don't have turning circles, they have orbits! :nono:

[Richard Farrant]

Ha ha! But which has the smaller turning circle: Bedford or Land Rover? :nut:

 

A Land Rover series 3 lwb is 15.25 metres max

 

A Bedford MK / MJ is 17.88 metres