Fog

[Guest catweazle (Banned Member)]

How did the RAF clear the fog from runways during the war?thanks.cw

[N.O.S.]

Dunno but my dad took off from Silouth in a Hudson during the war. A steam roller was working near the end of the runway.

 

When he returned it was totally fogged up. All he could see was the top of a tall chimney which he knew to be at a nearby factory and the smoke/steam from the roller. So he carefully lined up using these two markers and made a perfect landing in zero visibility.

 

Couldn't have done it without the roller he said. One of his many wartime 'lucky breaks' :-D Good job they hadn't moved the roller while he was up :shake:

[woa2]

How did the RAF clear the fog from runways during the war?thanks.cw

FIDO Fog Investigation Dispersal Operation

Basically it meant lighting two trenches of Petrol alongside the landing strip, which caused a hole in the Fog.

[Rick W]

Im sure there is a pic in the Morris gallery of an armoured Morris car on dispersal duties...

[Guest catweazle (Banned Member)]

'lucky breaks' :-D Good job they hadn't moved the roller while he was up :shake:

Wow what a lucky break,There wouldnt of been anyone to restore that tanker if they had.

[Guest catweazle (Banned Member)]

FIDO Fog Investigation Dispersal Operation

Basically it meant lighting two trenches of Petrol alongside the landing strip, which caused a hole in the Fog.

Thanks Robert thought it was something like that.CW.

[abn deuce]

there is a training video on this system on you tube but I m unable to find it again !!!

wikipedia's listing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fog_Investigation_and_Dispersal_Operation_(FIDO)

Sorry I knew I saw the film but thought of youtube first , the film was on this site the real military flix site.

http://www.realmilitaryflix.com/public/147.cfm

Edited November 29, 2008 by abn deuce

[Tony B]

F.I.D.O. was used but burnt an incredible amount of fuel. One of the best articales I've read on it was in the Britian At War magazine. It was intended to use it on civil airfeilds, but the development of RADAR and Blind Landing equipment made it obsolete. the system worked by using pressurised burners, similar in principle to Tilley lamps. There were eventually about a dozen airfeilds equipped.

Edited November 29, 2008 by Tony B

[antarmike]

One of which was Ludford (Magna) in Lincolnshire. They had troubles with F.I.D.O. because the airfield was one of the highest in the County, with land falling away from it and when F.I.D.O. was used it created such an updraft, the Pilots had difficulty getting the Aircraft to settle on the runway, the planes just wanted to keep flying. Every trace is gone.

 

Fiskerton is the nearest Airfield to me that had F.I.D.O., no sign of anything left there either.

Edited November 30, 2008 by antarmike

[antarmike]

FIDO was used after the war at one of London's Civilian Airfields (Heathrow / Gatwick) I'll have to look up which one. It must have been frightening for Passengers coming down in the middle of that lot.

 

I was Watching "Coast" on telly a few days ago and apparently Prestwick, with its particular Coastal locaion is the Airfield least affected by fog in Britain, and was built with the biggest storage area for parked aircraft, because is became the main wartime airfield to divert planes (Largely American) to when they couldn't find their home field.

Edited November 30, 2008 by antarmike
adding extra information

[antarmike]

FIDO is claimed to have saved 2,500 Aircraft, and 10,000 men during the war, but 30 Million gallons of Petrol were used.

 

The First operational trials of the system were at Graveley, St Neots. (no bomber field was made available for the test) Graveley being No 8 group (pathfinder Force)

 

 

The first Airfield installations used 6,900 burners on 30" standpipes, two feet apart in a double row. Initially to get the petrol to burn without smoke 80% alcohol was added, but it wassn't possible to supply this secondary fuel in sufficient quantity, so the pipelines were preheated so that neat petrol at the burners had vaporized sufficiently to burn with a small clear flame.

 

Preheating gave more heat output so the Graveley installation became a single row of burners down each side if the runway.

Edited November 30, 2008 by antarmike
addition of image to post

[antarmike]

The first test was on 18th Feb 1943 when a borrowed Lancaster was flown in from Oakington.

 

The next airfield to be fidoed (if it is a verb!) was Downham Market.

 

It soon transpired that it wasn't right to have the burners alonside the runway, because by the time the pilot emerged into the clearing he had no time to line up, so the burners were moved forward to clear 500 yards ahead of the runway, and the first 500 yards only of the runway.

 

Trials at Lakenheath used Coke burners, but these were abandoned because they needed to be lit 3 hours before use in order to reach a condition where they burned smoke free.

 

Installations followed at Ludford Magna, Fiskerton, Metheringham, Sturgate, Foulsham, Tuddenham, Woodbridge, Bradwell Bay, Manston,Blackbushe and St Eval.

 

St Eval was an oddity because it was a costal command station, and its Cornish Seaside position meant it got severe sea fogs, so this installation reverted to a double row of burners each side of the runway.

 

The US used FIDO at Wright Field Dayton Ohio and in the Alutean islands, where the Island positioning meant Sea Fog was limiting the Bombing Campaign against the Japanese.

 

Carnaby ELG became another FIDO airfield.

 

Fido was also used to help with Take-offs but this was normally at Pathfinder Airfields, like Graveley, where the main bomber force airfields were clear, but they could not bomb without the Pathfinders to mark the targets.

 

It was highly risky and was usually avoided, by cancelling ops.

Edited November 30, 2008 by antarmike
edited for clarity

[antarmike]

Correction. The System was never fully installed or operational at Heathrow, Only BEA were prepared to meeet the cost, and it was so expensive other airlines would have had to help bear the cost. Initial work was abandoned, (a few concrete channel alonside No1 runway ansd some fuel storage tanks. Instead Manston, (the only RAF station to retain Fido post war,)and Blackbushe were proposed for civilian airliner landings.

 

Manston's system was de-commissioned in 1959.

 

Civilian trials were carried out at Blackbushe (circa 1952), following an overhaul, and prior to Blackbushe system being put on a care and Maintenance basis. Trials were done with a BEA Ambassador, an MCA Dove and a BOAC York.

 

The only recorded us of FIDO with a commercial flight was 30th November 1948 when Airwork Viking, G-AJFS took of from Blackbushe to fly, under charter to the Crown Agents to take a priority load of Banknotes to Accra , Gold Coast, via Gibraltar.

Edited November 30, 2008 by antarmike
factual content, further information

[antarmike]

Initial installation of FIDO was retro-fitted to existing Runways. The standpipes from exposed pipelines were a cheap and chearful solution, but a few of installations were made with the burners in a cast concrete trough, covered in gratings able to support a bombers weight.

 

Carnaby, Woodbridge and Manston were of this type. However because of the Classic three runway "A" pattern layout of wartime airfilds, all airfields had some burners in trenches where runways intersected.

Edited November 30, 2008 by antarmike
Correcting facts

[Adam Elsdon]

FIDO is claimed to have saved 2,500 Aircraft, and 10,000 men during the war, but 30 Million gallons of Petrol were used.

 

The First operational trials of the system were at Graveley, St Neots. (no bomber field was made available for the test) Graveley being No 8 group (pathfinder Force)

 

 

The first Airfield installations used 6,900 burners on 30" standpipes, two feet apart in a double row. Initially to get the petrol to burn without smoke 80% alcohol was added, but it wassn't possible to supply this secondary fuel in sufficient quantity, so the pipelines were preheated so that fuel at the burners had vaporized sufficientlt to burn with a small clear flame.

 

Preheating gave more heat output so the Graveley instalation became a single row of burners down each side if the runway.

 

 

Just done the maths on that, it equates to 12000 gallons per aircraft or 3000 gallons per man, which is really quite good, especially compared to the alternative.

[Marmite!!]

That could be said of a lot of other organisations which we as taxpayers actually fund Mike ! I for one am very proud of the RNLI as I think it is just about one of the most courageous things a person can do to put themselves at the mercy of the sea to try to save a life ! I am very gratefull that if for some reason I need them I know they will try to help ! We donate incase they are needed by someone not because we will need them !

 

 

Well said but this is going well Off Topic.. back on track please guys:tup::

[antarmike]

FIDO incidentally is an acronym that changed in meaning. F.I.D.O. originally was introduced at the trials stage and stood for Fog Investgation Dispersal Operation. It was not until June 1945 the RAF said that it stood for Fog Intensive Dispersal Of.

Edited December 27, 2008 by antarmike
adding Capitalisation

[antarmike]

Lanc from 576 Squadron lands at Fiskerton.

[Guest catweazle (Banned Member)]

Well said but this is going well Off Topic.. back on track please guys:tup::

As a long term Governor of thr RNLI Lee i wish to answer the comments so will start a new thread in other chatter.Maybe you could move the RNLI post to a new position and we will take it from there,cheers.

Thanks to Mike for all the imfo on the Fog and the rest who joined in cheers.

[Marmite!!]

As a long term Governor of thr RNLI Lee i wish to answer the comments so will start a new thread in other chatter.Maybe you could move the RNLI post to a new position and we will take it from there,cheers.

Thanks to Mike for all the imfo on the Fog and the rest who joined in cheers.

 

 

Will do CW...

 

Now here http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?t=10774

Edited November 30, 2008 by Marmite!!

[Guest catweazle (Banned Member)]

Will do CW...

 

Now here http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?t=10774

:tup::

[Tony B]

http://books.google.com/books?id=GSEDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA64&lpg=PA6&dq=Signal+Corps+truck+Model&lr=&as_brr=1&ie=ISO-8859-1&output=html

 

Found this contempoary description.

[Guest catweazle (Banned Member)]

:tup::Mr T.

[Tony B]

Hey CW have a nose round the rest of the site, some fascinating stuff in the older magazines, including BOATS!! :cool2: The old mechanic's tricks are helpful to.

[Guest catweazle (Banned Member)]

Hey CW have a nose round the rest of the site, some fascinating stuff in the older magazines, including BOATS!! :cool2: The old mechanic's tricks are helpful to.

will do mate.:-D