Internal Security Packs?

[11 FM 22]

11 FM 22 was (is) a lightweight FFR which served all its military life in Northern Ireland. Its first two deployements were: INTERNAL SECURITY PACK NO 84 (15:04:75 - 01:12:76) and INTERNAL SECURITY PACK NO 07 (12:10:77 - 05:09:79). After that it went on to serve with HQ 39 INFANTRY REGIMENT & SIGNAL SQUADRON, 40 SIGNAL REGIMENT (VOLUNTEERS) (T.A.) and 1ST ROYAL ANGLIAN REGIMENT.

 

 

But what was an Internal Security Pack? Or would you have to shoot me if you told me?

[Marmite!!]

Hi ??

 

welcome to the Award Winning Forum, maybe you could take the time to post an introduction here http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/forumdisplay.php?f=13

 

Cheers Lee

[ArtistsRifles]

Funnily enough - the same question was asked in the EMLRA newsletter (issue 64) back in early 2002... Presumably about the same vehicle as the reg num of 11 FM 22 was given there.

 

Obviously it never got an answer then either - is it still with the same owner????

[Richard Farrant]

11 FM 22 was (is) a lightweight FFR which served all its military life in Northern Ireland. Its first two deployements were: INTERNAL SECURITY PACK NO 84 (15:04:75 - 01:12:76) and INTERNAL SECURITY PACK NO 07 (12:10:77 - 05:09:79). After that it went on to serve with HQ 39 INFANTRY REGIMENT & SIGNAL SQUADRON, 40 SIGNAL REGIMENT (VOLUNTEERS) (T.A.) and 1ST ROYAL ANGLIAN REGIMENT.

 

 

 

 

I might be wrong but would hazard a guess that this might refer to the glass fibre armour kits fitted to Land Rovers and other vehicles on NI patrol duties during that period. They were often, wrongly, refered to a Makrolon kits, but that name was the product used for the clear plastic screens used to protect windscreen and door glass. Initially a unit going on a tour of NI would have had their vehicles fitted with the kits, and stripped on completion of duty. Later on, commonsense prevailed and a pool of protected vehicles was left in NI.

 

I fitted a good many of these kits in mid-70's, to Land Rovers of all types, Bed MK and RL.

 

Clive may know more about this and probably prove me wrong :-D

[fv1609]

Clive may know more about this and probably prove me wrong :-D

 

I don’t know what it means. But the time periods look more like an attachment to special units with that name rather than some modification to provide security fitments.

 

VPK (Vehicle Protection Kits) were fitted to ½ Ton Rovers at the rate of 752 in 1969-72 with a further 30 in period 1976-77.

 

Improved VPKs were fitted to ¼ & ¾ Ton Rovers in 1980.

[11 FM 22]

Funnily enough - the same question was asked in the EMLRA newsletter (issue 64) back in early 2002... Presumably about the same vehicle as the reg num of 11 FM 22 was given there.

 

Obviously it never got an answer then either - is it still with the same owner????

Yes, and I'm still totally in the dark! Said vehicle has been "civilianised" between its demob and my ownership (9 years now), I'm slowly returning it to full military spec. I'd love to know what it did in NI as it has (had) assorted holes in the bodywork (drilled not shot), numberplate in the "wrong" place, removed tool box, virgin bonnet (no straps of fittings) and a civilian tailgate. Has also been converted from 24 to 12 volt.

 

Any experts out there? Happy to show to any interested parties in south Hampshire area. Thanks for the interest/input so far.

[Richard Farrant]

Said vehicle has been "civilianised" between its demob and my ownership (9 years now), I'm slowly returning it to full military spec. I'd love to know what it did in NI as it has (had) assorted holes in the bodywork (drilled not shot), numberplate in the "wrong" place, removed tool box, virgin bonnet (no straps of fittings) and a civilian tailgate.

 

The holes in the bodywork is where the Vehicle Potection Kit panels were bolted on. No finess here, the panels were well used, and when offered up on the vehicle, you just drilled through holes in panel. If the vehicle had been fitted previously, there would be another set of holes there. It was possible to see how many NI tours a vehicle had been on, by counting the sets of holes. I think all the bonnet fittings were removed so an armour panel could be bolted on, also tailgates were taken off. I would have expected the Land Rover to have been put back to normal after its NI duties and being transfered to new units.

[Chaos]

Hi guys,

I am in the same position as 11 FM 22, My Lightweight FFR served in N. Ireland its entire life, Serving with the 2nd Light Infantry ,then in JUNE 76 with the Internal SecurityPack 83 then in Oct to serve with the Internal SecurityPack 12(Twice) , are these security codes for regiments/Ulster constabulary,

I would also like an answer to this question.

Co-incidently my Landrovers Reg was 74 FM 18

[AlienFTM]

I am entirely with Richard on this one. An IS Pack is an add-n for IS duties as he describes.

 

I did NI, I know a lot of people who did NI and we recently had a big forum discussion about which units had served. There was a broad spectrum of units and types discussed but nothing remotely resembling IS Pack. It simply makes no sense as a British Army unit. I'd posit that where IS Pack is listed in a vehicle's record, the vehicle was withdrawn and sent to have the IS Pack fitted before reissue to another unit.

 

I also worked in the RAPC Computer Centre for four years and saw the entire OrBat, but nothing resembled IS Pack.

[Chaos]

In My letter from the Museum of Army Transport it says it went back to the Vehicle Storage Depot and then went to "SERVE" with the Internal Security Pack 83, Then went back to the Vehicle Storage Depot,

:???

[fv1609]

In My letter from the Museum of Army Transport it says it went back to the Vehicle Storage Depot and then went to "SERVE" with the Internal Security Pack 83, Then went back to the Vehicle Storage Depot,

:???

 

I think Beverly have assumed that VSD on the record card means Vehicle Storage Depot, which is a common & understandable assumption. It is actually a Vehicle Sub Depot.

[Chaos]

Beverley did in fact state Vehicle Storage Depot

[fv1609]

Beverley did in fact state Vehicle Storage Depot

 

It does seem a very likely & reasonable interpretation of the meaning of VSD. However I have come to not always believe everything in their letters. I have had two answers to queries of my own & seen two letters about vehicles for other people. In all four letters there were serious factual errors that gave quite the wrong interpretation of the history, not just the triviality of an abbreviation. I am sure in those cases that the motivation was to be as helpful as possible, but it had conveyed quite erroneous information.

 

The definition of VSD = Vehicle Sub Depot comes from the Manual of Army Ordnance Services Volume I, Pamphlet No. 15. Glossary of Terms & Abbreviations in Ordnance Usage. Army Code No.60163. The definition is also upheld in Brassey's Defence Terminology

[Richard Farrant]

However I have come to not always believe everything in their letters. I have had two answers to queries of my own & seen two letters about vehicles for other people. In all four letters there were serious factual errors

 

 

 

Clive,

 

I agree, having seen responses from them, regarding wartime vehicles.

[fv1609]

Is this an Internal Security Pack in operation?

 

Is the lack of an ERM significant, so as not to suggest it is just an Army patrol? These plates tend not to just fall off. I don't think I have ever seen an Army vehicle in service without its plate or some such marking.

 

[Richard Farrant]

Is this an Internal Security Pack in operation?

 

Is the lack of an ERM significant, so as not to suggest it is just an Army patrol? These plates tend not to just fall off. I don't think I have ever seen an Army vehicle in service without its plate or some such marking.

 

 

 

 

Clive,

 

Not just the number plate that is missing, I cannot see a number plate light either.

[AlienFTM]

ISTR our IS LRs had the number plate above one of the bumpers in three rows of two.

 

I also STR that the rear view is about the worst view for seeing anything. I think there were fittings for a "Makrolon" (see earlier post) rear door, but this was never carried. This being open-topped, obviously doesn't have the "Makrolon" armour enclosing the troops. The "Makrolon" roof had a hatch so that we could provide top cover, which meant that the LR carried a wire cutter on the front to protect top cover from being decapitated by a wire over the road.

 

From the side, I am sure the "Makrolon" rolled under the body to protect the troops in the back from improvised mines and made the vehicle look very low. All the extra weight on the back did in fact make the vehicle extremely light of steering but a pig for a New-In-Green Trooper to drive.

 

So no, on reflection I don't think this is an IS Pack LR. If it were, a lot of it has been removed.

[ArtistsRifles]

Is this an Internal Security Pack in operation?

 

Is the lack of an ERM significant, so as not to suggest it is just an Army patrol? These plates tend not to just fall off. I don't think I have ever seen an Army vehicle in service without its plate or some such marking.

 

Has the photo been doctored at source for security reasons??? There's an odd, unifirmly shaped patch on the N/S of the vehicle.....