Humber PIG Pictures

[Adam Elkins]

cheers Clive.

Yes the hammer is vital in medical practice.

Do you know if this one is still about, where was the pic taken?

got any more?

[fv1609]

Adam this was taken near Salisbury Plain in 1994. The vehicle was a runner at the time, it may have been one of several that went to C&C services. But I don't think the pigs sold very well & most were cut for spares.

 

I wish I took more pics, but in those days it was rolls of film. Note the strange step, looks like 2 Saracen steps. On a Mk1 Ambulance, there was a normal Mk 1 step but on both sides.

 

Somewhere I have a pic of a Mk2 Ambulance that was in a yard in Crediton. He bought a vast amount of AFVs about 20 years ago. Whatever you wanted from pig to FV432 it was £1000. Those were the days.

 

Although they weren't really! The real bargains were like my other pig sold off in 1967 for £40. Or maybe £40 was worth £1000 in 1967!!

[Adam Elkins]

The step is the same as mine, i dont think its two steps welded together.

I paid £600 for mine nearly 5 years ago, i thought that was a bargain but £40 i would have brought them all at that price.

Once this one is finished ive got my eyes on a flying pig,he wont sell at the mo but im working on it.

[fv1609]

Once this one is finished ive got my eyes on a flying pig,he wont sell at the mo but im working on it.

 

Well it all takes time. The pig I use the most has been under restoration for 10 years, it will a few more years before the thing is completed. But it gets me round the shows. But a lot of that time has been not just restoration, but servicing and coping with repairs. Most repairs show themselves when you start running it more in the show season. I have just replaced an exhaust valve after some routine checking. (Spot the new one!)

 

 

Have you checked your compressions yet? Worth doing it to get baseline readings & compare in the future especially if something doesn't seem to be running right.

[Adam Elkins]

Hi Clive, thanks for the advice i will do.

Are parts readly availible(service parts) like your head gasket?

[fv1609]

Are parts readly availible(service parts) like your head gasket?

 

Head gaskets have sold for £20-£60, but I had some in stock. I also had some exhaust valves, all sealed up in boxes. Unfortunately I found that the collet arrangement was quite different. I wasn't sure whether to get the longer collets, but the may be even more difficult to fit or being longer they may be easier(?). I wanted minimum downtime in the middle of the season, I just needed to get on with what I knew about so I just got a new valve of the same type.

 

 

Bannisters had both items in stock. The valve + postage + VAT was appx £20. It is now running very smoothly, ticking over at 350 rpm with the slow running screw removed! The dynamo was noisey so I replaced that while I was in there & also checked the oil flow rate into the dynamo which is appx 2 pints a minute. Test drive tommorrow!

 

 

[Adam Elkins]

Looking good Clive.

All these picks makes me want to go out and work on it.

Thats another job i need to do is paint the engine.

Another question i need answering is where do i get door and hatch seals from?

[fv1609]

Unfortunately everything in the engine bay was heavily covered by NATO Green paint being sprayed in a relentless & to me pointless exercise. You can see remnants around the oil filter. I am gradually eradicating that. There is still a lot more tarting up to do. But I just cleaned & painted some things whilst they were removed to get the head sorted. If it was winter times I could have spent more time on it. Now it makes the carb look grubby but it works & for now is best left alone.

 

If you look at very early engines they were black except the electrical ancilleries. I was tempted to do that, but most people wouldn't understand. Besides it seems only to be early engines & although this is a very early pig, it was built from trucks that were towards the end of the production.

 

I don't know what you mean by door & hatch seals?

[Adam Elkins]

Was the GS truck engine painted black then?

Rubber seals that go around the doors and hatches to stop draft and water getting in,

they must of had them fitted.

[fv1609]

Was the GS truck engine painted black then?

 

 

I have the Provisional User Handbook Feb 1953 The engine, carb, coil, distributor, starter motor are black (looks gloss) but not the dynamo or oil filler cap & its mount.

 

There is an EMER somewhere that shows the engine black, but not the carb, starter motor or dynamo. Possibly everything was originally black & the lighter coloured stuff I presume to be Sky Blue represents replacement items fitted later.

 

The Provisional User Handbook for FV1609 March 1956 shows engine & all items fitted to it as light. No black at all on engine components. As mine is a FV1609 pig I felt I had to do it all in Sky Blue

 

In contrast I have the Champ Provisional User Handbook Oct 1953, that shows a light coloured engine but with black dynamo, coil & starter motor.

 

 

Rubber seals that go around the doors and hatches to stop draft and water getting in, they must of had them fitted.

 

No, I'm afraid not. The pig is a rudimentary AFV not a staff car. If you want to try to make the hatches & doors more water tight this is the dodge I did. Around the edge of the flap or door smear lots of grease. On the frame of the flap or door pack in body filler. Shut the flap or door fully & wipe away the excess. Come back when it has set & trim away the excess. Then you have a custom made fit.

 

You will need to sand it a little to allow for thickness of paint. Before you apply the filler you must block off the gaps in periheral frame inside the flap or door with tissue parer, otherwise when it has set this will break the stuff on the frame on the vehicle. Just do a small bit at a time say 10 inches.

 

The reason for this is that by the time you have got the gunge in place it will be starting to set, become poorly adhesive & goes flaky. Also if you find that once it has set it & it doesn't turn out to be closing properly it can be very difficult to quite work out where it is too tight. So do a little bit, get that trimmed & sanded & opening & shutting ok, then move to another bit.

 

There are various types & makes of body filler, go for a cheapo version as that won't be too hard to smooth down.

 

You might think maybe it would be easier to get the filler to stick on the edges of the flap or door rather than the frame on the vehicle. You would use twice as much filler as you would need to try to disguise the thickness of the filler by taking it under the peripheral flanges. Besides my rear door & 6 pistol ports have no flanges as the were to Police spec not Army.

[Adam Elsdon]

Just done a parade (Veterans Day in Aberdeen) over the weekend, and a thought that occurred to me half way down the parade route was can i reverse airflow a Pig, and has anybody else done it? i would take it that it is a case of putting the fan on backwards, or is there more to it?

Just that the heat was getting fairly unbearable by mid afternoon, and as it cruised the 70 mile round trip doing about 40-45mph with the temperature gauge sitting steady regardless of the speed, and been a temperate climate, i would of thought having all that hot air going out the front and sides is better than around my feet! after all if they run ok in desert conditions like that, Scotland shouldnt present a problem!

Any opinions?

[Adam Elsdon]

Pig on parade! unfortunately i havent got pics of it on the move as i was driving, these are at the assembly point and at Gordon Barracks Aberdeen at the finish.

Lots of veterans in attendance (including myself!) and huge crowds lining Union Street to see the parade.

I had the only armoured vehicle on the parade, which seems indicative of the fuel prices at the moment, but it was well worth it, excellent day out, and a good opportunity to let others marvel at the Pig in motion!!

[fv1609]

Adam when you look at some Hornets used in the desert you can see the 'bonnet' armour is held open by nearly 2 inches by supporting struts welded halfway down each side. Not only are they likely to be static for most of the time there is an almightly great rotary converter under the bonnet. This generates plenty of hot air that can be switched into the cab providing warmth for the crew. Given the expected theatre of enagement for these vehicles, it seemed an unnecessary facility!

 

So you could rig something up to temporarily open the bonnet a bit. I assume you have original removable windows you could wear goggles & let the wind blow you cool. Or at least hinge the bottom of the window on its widest setting to give you an inch or two of space for a downdraft.

 

As you know the thin sheeting that insulates you from the engine is thin. I suppose you could put some felt there, but not quite the thing really.

 

Hot air does come up your legs from the foot pedals. I have put very large washers over the clutch & brake pedal. I have made a small plate to reduce the hole for the accelerator. Using short bolts it fits into existng captive nuts.

 

 

Very often the sheeting doesn't mate together very well & there are air gaps. But even so there is too large a hole for the steering column. I have made up some plates, smeared them with sealant & screwed them in. If noticed they could just look like a field repair.

 

 

Where the dynamo & headlight cables come in, I have packed some dense black foam pieces that aren't noticed really. Then finally I have put silicone sealant around all the crevices & small gaps then painted it. So now there are no areas that feel as if a hairdryer is running it is just conduction through the thin sheeting.

 

Having done Kemble at 65 miles it has made an improvement. I just hope its not sunny driving 115 miles to Beltring. As you have probably found opening the roof hatches doesn't help, it just means the sun beats down on your head, especially those bits where the hair is thinner!

Edited June 30, 2008 by fv1620

[Adam Elkins]

Hi Clive,

Thanks again for showing me all the stuff that could cause me problems and what lube needs to go where.

When i got back from kemble i checked my dynamo and its completely different to yours,

its alot shorter and hasent got the holes you screw the caps on for wading, and hasent got the bolt hole you fill with oil.

made new diaphrams for my fuel pump so going to fire her up this week and hope iv'e solved the problem.

[fv1609]

Thats unusual to have the single speed gen (Generator No.1) (12A output) in a Mk2 rather than the 2-speed I showed you (Generator No.2) (25A output). Your Generator Panel No.1 is simpler than the No.2 with all the covers & cutouts.

 

Interestingly that Mk 2 there also had a Generator No.1, which was black suggesting it was the original dynamo fitted in the 1950s. It is commonly believed that all Mk 2 Pigs had the 2-speed generator. Both these examples demonstrate that this was not the case if the pig was a FV1611 the single generator system was left alone. Until it failed as there seemed to be no reconditioning of them they were then upgraded to the 2-speed generator.

 

Similarly not all Mk 2 Pigs had a double servo, this was changed only as & when the brake system needed reworking or the pig was having a major overhaul.

 

Actually there was Generator Panel No.1 for sale around on the Champ Camp. The panel looked as it had been removed from a FV1601.

 

Good luck with the new diaphragms & you have drained all that petrolly oil out?

Edited June 30, 2008 by fv1620

[Adam Elkins]

So with mine being a single speed does that mean that it does'nt need lubricating.

I think mine is also black under all the dirt.

Mine does have the double servo fitted.

All oil will be drained first, where can i get a oil filter element or will it be ok with a good clean?

Do you still want to swop your Mk2 wing with my Mk1?

[fv1609]

So with mine being a single speed does that mean that it does'nt need lubricating.

Correct

 

 

I think mine is also black under all the dirt.

So probably the factory fitted dynamo

 

 

where can i get a oil filter element or will it be ok with a good clean?

I have some early type filters which probably won't fit yours. For the moment I would just wash out the felt filter in petrol. The later felt filters can be had at a price, but I have the equivalent for a paper element somewhere. While you are at it I would dismantle & clean the fuel filter in petrol.

 

 

Do you still want to swop your Mk2 wing with my Mk1?

Sort of & also depends on the state of yours. I'm in no hurry, in the next five years is ok. If you come this way you should call in & see the two Humbers you haven't seen & look at the wing.

[Adam Elkins]

Hi Clive.

My wing is in very good condition some bullet holes.

 

Would be great to pop over yours to see your other Humbers.

Where do you live? PM me.

 

Also cant remember what oil i need to use in the joints?

 

I have a B series engine manual but is there any manuals on the rest of the truck axels etc?

[fv1609]

OEP220 or use EP90. But I would not recommend either for the transfer box due to heating problems. I found Comma EP80-90 solved the problem (that few owners are aware of).

 

I assume you have EMER POWER S 520 series. You will also find other bits that are relevant in section P. This includes, generator, gen panel, junction box etc.

 

The main vehicle series is in EMER WHEELED VEHICLES N250 & N250/2 (N 250 is gen Humber & Mk 1 Pig, whilst N 250/2 is Mk 2 Pig)

 

User Handbook (Mk 1) is WO Code No.12246

IPC is WO Code No.12815

Servicing Schedule is WO Code No.13068

 

http://www.mark.clubaustin.co.uk/ (don’t be put off by the Austin bit he covers lots of vehicles)

 

http://www.robvanmeel.nl/index.php (his website is not working at moment, was Groucho Publishing. At Beltring he had a stall & was selling reprint of EMER WHEELED VEHICLES N250 series)

 

What really need for starters is the User Handbook & IPC.

[Adam Elkins]

I dont konw what manual i have it just say's RR B series engines, so i prob have the wrong one.

I will get to work on getting the relivent manuals and handbook that i need cheers.

What does IPC stand for?

[fv1609]

Adam well maybe its the civilian RR book rather than the EMER. It's worth having both. But the RR book uses torque figures in in-lbs rather than ft-lbs. I remember that when I fitted a new flywheel & snapped a bolt!

 

IPC = Illustrated Parts Catalogue

[Adam Elkins]

Yes it is the civillian manual i have so will have to get the EMER one.

Do you still have the hand pumps for the front hatches, because i broke one of the pressure relief knobs.

[fv1609]

Adam. Both manuals are useful to have they give a slightly different perspectives on things,

 

I think I sold the pumps but I have seen the pipes around, not sure if there is anything on the other end!

[Adam Elkins]

Not to worry, you still got the rams?

Im going to fire her up the weekend, i cant wait to hear her puring away again.

and give it a spin down the road.

i noticed today that the break fluid topup cap has seased tryed WD40 but still wont budge, any suggestions?

[fv1609]

Not to worry, you still got the rams?

Only this one left now

I think actually that is the goat, haven't got a good picture of the ram.

 

 

i noticed today that the break fluid topup cap has seased tryed WD40 but still wont budge, any suggestions?

 

I have a device for removing oil filters that is a fibre strap that tensions up uniformly as you tug on it. Try a tiny bit of tightening & then try undoing, rocking back & forth to build up movement.

 

I that doesn't work I have some wide curved jawed pliers that can be gently applied around the whole circumference of the cap just to very slightly squeeze it so that it crushes the rust. Then try back & forth jiggling. I think the top of the cap is hexagonal so you might get a spanner on to apply a non destructive force.

 

They are very prone to rust. I fitted a brand new one (also used in some Scamells) of course the brake fluid has stripped most of the black paint of it & then the rust sets in!

 

The trouble is my resevoir is only about 6 in from the roof. So you cannot see the fluid level & have dip the finger to see what is in there. Being so high it is difficult to fill & difficult to see if you have filled it until it overflows. As yours was a production pig, it is in a more sensible place.