Something different

[10FM68]

Having a browse on the internet this evening, I came across these two photos which were taken by a Mr David Wood, formerly an RMP policeman.  They show the RMP Checkpoint at the western end of the autobahn where it left West Germany, to pass through East Germany to Berlin.  During the period of the Cold War all military vehicles were checked in at each end and their passage through East Germany monitored for safe arrival at the other end.

It is interesting as I was previously unaware that the British Army had any BMC1100/1300s!  Here is one with an 'XB' ERM - signifying that it was bought on the 'Berlin Budget' rather than through conventional MoD sources as vehicles belonging to BAOR were and, of course, it is marked as a Berlin Brigade vehicle with a '28' on black AOS sign signifying a brigade pro coy RMP.  Note the blue light on the roof!

The second of his photos shows the car used for 'the sweep' of the autobahn - which the RMP used to ensure there were no missing or broken down vehicles stranded in the East.  I'm not sure what type that is - a Ford Taunus, perhaps?

As I say, the photos are courtesy Mr David Wood and appear on the 'BAOR Locations' website: https://www.baor-locations.org/sitemap.aspx.html

Edited February 15 by 10FM68

[Citroman]

The other two cars might be Opel  Admiral the large Opel with V8 engine. Or a very late Opel Kapitän 6 cylinder.

Edited February 16 by Citroman

[wally dugan]

 That is interesting yes the X prefix  series on vehicle numbers were funded by the  FRG for use by the british military in GERMANY but as ever there is the anomaly take the ZB series in among the ones that served in Germany some never saw service there.  THE GPA is one type that appears in the in the ZB series  but records show that some never left the UK

[10FM68]

1 hour ago, wally dugan said:

 That is interesting yes the X prefix  series on vehicle numbers were funded by the  FRG for use by the british military in GERMANY but as ever there is the anomaly take the ZB series in among the ones that served in Germany some never saw service there.  THE GPA is one type that appears in the in the ZB series  but records show that some never left the UK

It was all to do with paying for the 'forces of occupation', I understand.  By this time, West Germany was simply a NATO member and BAOR was part of the NATO force, but Berlin was different - there, still, the USA, France, the Soviet Union and the UK were Occupying Powers.  Nor was the Berlin Brigade part of BAOR. Anyway, the costs of the garrison, therefore, were paid for, as reparations, by the Federal Government - the British Army referred to it as 'the Berlin Budget'.  The result was, of course, that the Germans supplied the Berlin Brigade where they could with German-sourced vehicles - the VWs, the Mungas, Mercs, Unimogs, Magirus Deutz and so on.  All this stuff had the --X?-- ERM.  The other anomaly was British kit used by HQ NORTHAG at Rheindahlen - their stuff carried Bundeswehr-style ERMs, but, instead of a Y prefix had an X, if I remember rightly.  There was a similar arrangement at the NATO HQs in Bruunsum as I remember as well.

As you say, though,  am sure there were plently of anomalies - there always are with large organisations.  Incidentally - yesterday I came across an old visitors' guidebook for the Museum of Army Transport at Beverley - an interesting read, I'd forgotten I had it.

[10FM68]

3 hours ago, Citroman said:

The other two cars might be Opel  Admiral the large Opel with V8 engine. Or a very late Opel Kapitän 6 cylinder.

Yep, I bet you're right.  When I looked at the photo, I thought to myself then, if I write Opel, it'll be a Ford and vice versa.  If you look carefully at the grille, I think it says Kapitan on it, but why there is no Opel (or Ford!!) badge, I don't know.  I expect it had an uprated engine like the RMP 'White Mice' - the Opels they used for following SOXMIS, or, indeed, the BRIXMIS Opels. It might even be a 'retired White Mouse' enjoying a second, and less demanding, life.

[10FM68]

Here's another interesting photo of an Opel on the strength of 2 Div Pro Coy, this time a tourer.  Note the --XB-- ERM.  Again, another photo from BAOR Locations.  It is interesting as this vehicle clearly isn't being used in Berlin or by the Berlin Brigade so, I presume, as this predates the end of the 'Occupation' of Germany - pre-Bundeswehr, etc, then, if a vehicle was bought locally it received an --X?-- ERM.  Perhaps, Wally, you can add to that?  It is well before my time.

Edited February 16 by 10FM68

[wally dugan]

As you suggest any local purchased vehicles and used by BRITISH MILITARY were given a ERM from those in the X  series l have seen pictures of german built buses with  X numbers used by british forces. I to have still guide books from the museum as a side once had a whale of a time with a BRIXMAS G WAGEN great tool

[Noel7]

2 hours ago, 10FM68 said:

It is interesting as this vehicle clearly isn't being used in Berlin or by the Berlin Brigade so, I presume, as this predates the end of the 'Occupation' of Germany - pre-Bundeswehr, etc, then, if a vehicle was bought locally it received an --X?-- ERM.

The Berlin Brigade existed until 1994, after the reunification of Germany in October 1990. I can't read the final two characters on the car in the picture, but 21XB42, 21XB43 and 25XB36 were apparently Opel Kapitan cars used as escort vehicles [on the East German autobahn to Berlin?] by the RMP.

So far as I know [it isn't my particular area of interest] XA to XF had initially been used for, mostly Canadian built, miscellaneous vehicles in the UK, with XG onwards used for Berlin Brigade. Gaps in the earlier series were also filled in over time by Berlin vehicles. The Berlin series eventually ran from XA to somewhere in XK.

[wally dugan]

the only Canadian vehicles listed in the X series are those in the XC range of numbers 00 XC 01  to  16XC O9  the series ran  XA TO XH

[10FM68]

According to a list I have --XG-- was used by the CWGC on the continent - whether exclusively in Germany or not, I don't know.  I have no photos going beyond XH, but the list claims that it went up to XL and then was gapped until XZ.

The Range Rovers which BRIXMIS used before the G Wagens retired to Depot INT CORPS at Ashford where they were used for training.  I don't think the G Wagens were - perhaps they were disposed of locally, (though one ended up in the museum).

Edited February 16 by 10FM68

[10FM68]

5 hours ago, Noel7 said:

21XB42, 21XB43 and 25XB36 were apparently Opel Kapitan cars used as escort vehicles [on the East German autobahn to Berlin by the RMP.

I have looked again at the photo and according to the chap who submitted it - Eric Heath who was with 2 Div Pro Coy at the time stationed at Bunde, it was a fore-runner of the 'White Mice' - a SOXMIS chase car.

I'm slightly intrigued by the fact that RMP vehicles in Berlin were gloss black.  I read somewhere that when Monty used his Rolls Royce (rather than his Humber), which was, of course, gloss black and highly polished, his RMP escort Jeeps were also gloss black.  Certainly a possibility and may be the origins of the tradition.  Of course, Monty wasn't based in Berlin, he was in Bad Oeynhausen, so I might be adrift with that.  Does anyone else know?

Edited February 16 by 10FM68
More information

[wally dugan]

the chillwel list of 1945 -1949 of numbers issued  shows numbers allocated but not taken up leaving gaps in the allocated number series  this also happened in the post 1949 allocated numbers

[10FM68]

1 hour ago, wally dugan said:

the chillwel list of 1945 -1949 of numbers issued  shows numbers allocated but not taken up leaving gaps in the allocated number series  this also happened in the post 1949 allocated numbers

I have the Chilwell list for WW2 from 1945, but are later ones available commercially?

[wally dugan]

l knew of three copies one was at BEVERLEY one l got the other went to some one in CHILWELL l have not seen a copy for sale or any one printing copies from my point l have never wanted to have it copied after what happened at BEVERLEY  there is no reason to think there are not more but who has them l do not know or they may have been lost or  destroyed as so much was in the last days of the               DIRECTORATE OF SUPPLY MANAGEMENT VEHICLE DIVISION at BEESTON

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 16 by wally dugan

[fv1609]

1 hour ago, 10FM68 said:

I'm slightly intrigued by the fact that RMP vehicles in Berlin were gloss black.  I read somewhere that when Monty used his Rolls Royce (rather than his Humber), which was, of course, gloss black and highly polished, his RMP escort Jeeps were also gloss black.  Certainly a possibility and may be the origins of the tradition.  Of course, Monty wasn't based in Berlin, he was in Bad Oeynhausen, so I might be adrift with that.  Does anyone else know?

The general rule was that Cars 6-seater limousine should be high gloss black & that Cars, 4-seater limousine should be high gloss DBG. Although "specially authorised 4-seaters" could also be black.

[Citroman]

The cabrio, is a Opel Kapitän too, first model after the war.

[fv1609]

Equipment Regulations 1959 defines the use the ERM.

[10FM68]

41 minutes ago, fv1609 said:

The general rule was that Cars 6-seater limousine should be high gloss black & that Cars, 4-seater limousine should be high gloss DBG. Although "specially authorised 4-seaters" could also be black.

I know that was the case after the war, but Monty had his gloss black Roller during the war (it was a gift, apparently). But I was just wondering about the gloss black being used by the RMP on their Mungas and Land Rovers in Berlin.

 

And thank you for the extract from Equipment Regulations 1959 - but, I bet there are exceptions - again, has anyone a photo of any 'X' reg after XH?

 

[wally dugan]

MONTY WAS GIVEN DUV 553 not FLD 99 which was the one landed on the 9th of june 1944 he had the use of more than one ROLLS ROYCE just for the record

[Noel7]

13 hours ago, 10FM68 said:

again, has anyone a photo of any 'X' reg after XH?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/britishjeep/34600442961/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/britishjeep/33944654393/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/britishjeep/33944654683/

If the links don't work [I always have trouble with Flickr links], search "britishjeep" on Flickr, they're all RMP VW Beetles, on pages 27/28.

 

[10FM68]

13 hours ago, wally dugan said:

MONTY WAS GIVEN DUV 553 not FLD 99 which was the one landed on the 9th of june 1944 he had the use of more than one ROLLS ROYCE just for the record

Thanks for that, I must say, I had forgotten that he had two!  I presume one ended up at Beverley as it remained 'on the books' well after the war as 16YF67.

[10FM68]

40 minutes ago, Noel7 said:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/britishjeep/34600442961/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/britishjeep/33944654393/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/britishjeep/33944654683/

If the links don't work [I always have trouble with Flickr links], search "britishjeep" on Flickr, they're all RMP VW Beetles, on pages 27/28.

 

Thank you for digging these out, and very German 'Js' they are too!  What a fascinating collection of photos. I had seen the Jeep photos before, but not the VW ones.  Interestingly, the Military Police and their RAF equivalent were very keen on being photographed weren't they!  By proportion, there must be more photos of Service police vehicles about than those of any other branch.

[wally dugan]

16 YF 67 had the civilian registration number FLD 99 it was damaged in the bombing and after repair gifted to the war department. And was retained by the RASC/RCT/RLC it spent some of it's time on display at BEVERLEY were l had the privilege to look after it. The BEETLES  in the XJ series ran from 01 XJ 01 to  08 XJ  26 

Edited February 17 by wally dugan

[wally dugan]

30 XC 27 is a black series two land rover converted to VIP PARADE  RMP ESCORT  now in the DUNSFOLD COLLECTION 30 XC 16 is also black and converted to the ceremonial review role both these were converted in GERMANY

[wally dugan]

just found the paper work for the BRIXMAS MERCEDES-BENZ 280 GE registration number   10 XK 81  TRIUMPH 750 CC ESCORT RMP 04 GX 29