Matchbox Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 Hi, I've been offered a Matchless motorcycle, engine # 41/G3L 57253 and frame # 10430. It's got the splayed front tank mountings. Now the matchlesswd site quotes this frame # as postwar and this puzzles me because the bike is in the same village and family from the liberation on. I believe the actual owner that no modification to the engine and frame have been made for the last 78 years. There were no surplus bikes here and certainly no money to buy a postwar #frame. So what can it be ? best regards. Claude 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garys39 Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 The rear frame section looks like it is prewar G3 (where the voltage regulator mounts under the seat), does it have brackets for the pillion foot rests ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garys39 Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 This might help. http://www.matchlesswd.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/P8a-Frame-section-copy.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welbike Posted June 8, 2022 Share Posted June 8, 2022 I have 10429 and 10431 in my database, so there were certainly wartime bikes within that number range, most probably G3WO's from late 1940. is there a sidecar lug on the front downtube? Are you in France? Am in Normandy right now, and bad internet, but when I'm back, I can probably find out more. The bike has most probably been rebuilt by the British army, during, or just after the war. Cheers, Lex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matchbox Posted June 8, 2022 Author Share Posted June 8, 2022 19 hours ago, garys39 said: This might help. http://www.matchlesswd.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/P8a-Frame-section-copy.jpg Thanx Gary! I've forwarded the identification aid to the owner...waiting for news... Could the bike have been kind of upgraded in an army workshop during the war, so to say swap the G3WO front frame and forks for a 41/G3L replacement with teledraulic forks...and the G3WO engine for a 41/G3L power unit? Could the new specification frame have been restamped with the old G3WO number - 10430? Are there any such known examples around? ...this would be my idea considering the bike is (generally)untouched for the last 78 years. best regards. Claude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garys39 Posted June 8, 2022 Share Posted June 8, 2022 Hello Claude, yes, the bike might have been rebuilt by an Army workshop and any of the above combinations could have happened. More photos of the bike would help identify what it is made up of, there are better Matchless experts here who will be able to help. Regards Gary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matchbox Posted June 8, 2022 Author Share Posted June 8, 2022 1 hour ago, welbike said: I have 10429 and 10431 in my database, so there were certainly wartime bikes within that number range, most probably G3WO's from late 1940. is there a sidecar lug on the front downtube? Are you in France? Am in Normandy right now, and bad internet, but when I'm back, I can probably find out more. The bike has most probably been rebuilt by the British army, during, or just after the war. Cheers, Lex Hi Lex, now this is very interesting reading - we found the missing linking number ; 😃 No sidecar lug on the front frame downtube - tank mountings played V shape - 41/G3L specification...albeit with a "wrong" number. The bike is in Luxembourg, left behind by retreating german forces in september 1944. The owner family laid their hands on it, got some petrol from liberating US troops...and had some fun before the germans saying hello again in december. 1944. My guess is then a MAJOR rebuilt during the war...before being captured by the germans. ...the (radio) connections in Normandy 1944 weren't always good either... best regards. Claude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matchbox Posted June 8, 2022 Author Share Posted June 8, 2022 3 minutes ago, garys39 said: Hello Claude, yes, the bike might have been rebuilt by an Army workshop and any of the above combinations could have happened. More photos of the bike would help identify what it is made up of, there are better Matchless experts here who will be able to help. Regards Gary Gary, I'd also like more photos, but the bike is in a bike crammed, very low ceiling basement and the seller is not so keen to pull it out unless I bring the money...so I am asking for his goodwill... I've got one more pic when it was on exhibition some time ago... best regards. Claude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garys39 Posted June 8, 2022 Share Posted June 8, 2022 I also have a G3/G3L variant, bought in Normandy, seller had originally got it from the Le Mans area, it has a G3 rear frame end, gearbox and chain guard but the front half is G3L, the frame and engine numbers had been modified I believe for civilian registration and so untraceable by the army. I have presumed the rear half was from an abandoned G3, at the time of Dunkirk and then used and left by the Germans 1944, taken to a vehicle dump where somebody acquired the remains of the G3 along with the remains of a G3L and out of the two wrecks put themselves together a bike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matchbox Posted June 8, 2022 Author Share Posted June 8, 2022 18 minutes ago, garys39 said: I also have a G3/G3L variant, bought in Normandy, seller had originally got it from the Le Mans area, it has a G3 rear frame end, gearbox and chain guard but the front half is G3L, the frame and engine numbers had been modified I believe for civilian registration and so untraceable by the army. I have presumed the rear half was from an abandoned G3, at the time of Dunkirk and then used and left by the Germans 1944, taken to a vehicle dump where somebody acquired the remains of the G3 along with the remains of a G3L and out of the two wrecks put themselves together a bike. ...so the old G3WO rear frame is compatible with the "modern" 41/G3L front frame ... and it looks like having been done in a British army workshop. - so could have been your's then as well. One more give away to the old G3 WO is the low toolbox mounting on #10430... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garys39 Posted June 8, 2022 Share Posted June 8, 2022 Another place to check for numbers is here on the rear frame section, not always stamped but worth checking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welbike Posted June 8, 2022 Share Posted June 8, 2022 Ok, interesting! Looking at the last picture, I see it has a G3WO cylinder! (More fins than G3L) I hope the owner is not asking too much, as the bike needs much work and many parts! Lex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matchbox Posted June 8, 2022 Author Share Posted June 8, 2022 36 minutes ago, welbike said: Ok, interesting! Looking at the last picture, I see it has a G3WO cylinder! (More fins than G3L) I hope the owner is not asking too much, as the bike needs much work and many parts! Lex yes, I'm afraid it needs a lot of those expensive items such as Lucas head & rearlamp, levers (Bowden or AMAL), carb, a.s.o. I'll forward him your thoughts.. : ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matchbox Posted June 8, 2022 Author Share Posted June 8, 2022 49 minutes ago, garys39 said: Another place to check for numbers is here on the rear frame section, not always stamped but worth checking. good to know...we'll have to scratch x layers of paint... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
79x100 Posted June 8, 2022 Share Posted June 8, 2022 The headlamp looks as if it started life on a late 1950s BSA C15...the mudguards are a fifties style too...The bike has clearly seen a lot of use since 1945. I think that I can see metric engine mounting bolts as well. This isn't one of those 'time capsule' machines. There were fields full of British motorcycles all across France, Belgium and The Netherlands in 1945, not to mention the British bases in Germany (and French and Belgian troops using the bikes there too). It would be far more convenient to be able to say that a vehicle had been abandoned by the Wehrmacht than lots of other possible scenarios. It's a worn-out bitsa and the value should reflect that rather than the unprovable back-story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welbike Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 I can't see if the rear frame has sidecar lugs or not, but they are interchangable with G3L frames, only in 1948 a new frame was introduced. Cheers, Lex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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