Division markings back ground colours

[67burwood]

Is it just me or are British ww2 division markings and unit insignias Difficult to understand!! ( it’s properly just me 🙄 )

 

I’ve recently decided to put British markings on my gpw, I’ve chosen 78th battle axe ( no particular reason ) I wanted 38th Irish infantry Brigade but from my research they used the 78th insignia on there vehicles, I’ve gone with Armoured infantry and want to put on a green background and 61 as pictured below 

 

Question is what colour green do I need and more important have I got it right or just completely wrong!!

All opinions and advise welcome  

 

[2691H]

61 on a light green square is the company marking within the infantry brigade, ie green square is infantry, 61 is the company, but you need the army group insignia to go with it.

Example. 61 light green square with the dessert rat insignia would read as follows. Dessert rats put it in the 21st army group, which is attached to the 8th army. light green square makes it infantry therefore 131 infantry brigade which is the infantry attached to 8th army,

61 makes it the senior rifle battalion of the 1/6th Queen's. now you need the bridge sign and platoon markings if used.

Easy to follow these signs on British kit, all you need to do to  understand them in seconds is to sit in a slit trench with live rounds coming in, you will soon learn to recognise British kit. You will also find the issue tiolet paper does have it uses.

Hope this helps and by the way before D.Day and after D day may be different as units reformed.

[67burwood]

3 hours ago, 2691H said:

Easy to follow these signs on British kit, all you need to do to  understand them in seconds is to sit in a slit trench with live rounds coming in, you will soon learn to recognise British kit. You will also find the issue tiolet paper does have it uses.

Well.....it’s all become clear now!!  Next time the wife starts World War III over too many projects I will grab some toilet roll, dig a trench and study British unit markings 😂😂

[67burwood]

But!! There’s still the question of what the colour name is for the green square...

[chrisgrove]

Hi 67 burwood

There is a certain amount of dodgy information above!  78 Infantry Division never carried desert rat insignia, neither was it ever in 21 Army Group.  It operated in Tunisia and thereafter in Sicily, Italy and Austria.  The Divisional sign was the battleaxe as you appear to be aware, yellow axe on black disc or square.  78 Division always contained three Infantry Brigades (basically there were no Armoured Infantry brigades during WW2).  All three brigades would have carried the divisional emblem on their vehicles.   The senior brigade was indicated  by its AoS number being on a red square, the second brigade on a green square and the third brigade (38 Irish) on a brown square, so your green background would mean 36 Infantry Brigade.  The numbers for 36 brigade should have been 60 (5 Buffs), 61 (6 RWK), and 62 (8 Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders).  For 38 Brigade the numbers  should have been 67 (2 or 6 Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers depending on time), 68 (2 London Irish Rifles) and 69 (1 Royal Irish Fusiliers).  I say 'should' as the normal order of precdence may have been amended to show the difference between regular and territorial units.  I have no knowledge of the exact shade of green or brown used, but the green appears to be just about what you would expect from 'green', not dark, not light, but green.  The brown is also about what you would expect from a paint called 'brown', not dark, not light, but obviously brown.

Infantry Brigades were generally not provided with enough transport to carry all their personnel, though some were designated as Lorried Infantry or Motor Brigades.  As far as I know, 78 Division's brigades were ordinary infantry brigades and relied on Divisional Transport Companies (RASC) to transport them when necessary.

HTH Chris

 

Edited August 22, 2020 by chrisgrove

[67burwood]

Hi Chris

Thank you for all the information, so basically I need a brown square with the number 67 but it’s unlikely that as infantry they had any Jeeps. 

[79x100]

The brown is likely to have originated in the standard pre-war colours and be 'Brown, Dark. G.S.'

Establishments varied over time,  but by 1944,  an infantry battalion included 11 x Car 5cwt 4 x4 (Jeep).

[67burwood]

Thank you for all the help, all information has been greatly appreciated.