ruxy Posted April 13, 2017 Posted April 13, 2017 http://www.hertfordshiremercury.co.uk/stansted-mountfitchet-man-finds-14-000-ww2-dog-tags-buried-in-a-field/story-30264253-detail/story.html Quote
10FM68 Posted April 13, 2017 Posted April 13, 2017 Interesting, but I am surprised by the story that they trace back to WWII. For much of the first half of the 20th century British soldiers had "regimental numbers" - ie, on attestation recruits were issued with numbers from blocks allocated to particular regiments or corps. Later these were replaced with "army numbers" whereby all recruits, irrespective of their future regiment or corps were allocated a number from the same army-wide series. Quite when the change was made I cannot recall, but someone on the forum will know, I am sure. The examples shown in the photo are 8-figure numbers starting with 22 and 23. The army was only up to 8-figure numbers starting with 24 when I joined in 1975 and many older colleagues had numbers in the 23 series, but they weren't WWII veterans. I wouldn't expect them to have been stamped in the factory, either. I am sure the WD/MoD(A) would have purchased them as blanks and then had them stamped to suit the individual sometime after attestation once his particulars had been recorded officially. During the same period, while soldiers had 8-figure numbers, officers had 6-figure ones, officially starting P/ such as P/490786, though in routine use the P/ was dropped. The current British Army system is different. In the US military, I understand, they use the individual's social security number. The different styles chosen by different armies is interesting - the British army used two - one to be left on the deceased and one to be returned to records (for a while three were issued, with the third being attached to the respirator, if I remember correctly). In Germany they used a single tag with duplicate details on two halves with a serration down the middle In the event of death, the tag was broken in two, with half remaining with the body and the other half being returned to records. 10 68 Quote
ruxy Posted April 13, 2017 Author Posted April 13, 2017 (edited) Did 10FM68 come with a Tag. on the Ignition Key with the VRM stamped ? I have some , very thin abt. 35mm dia. Stainless Steel I think , some are proper engraved with layer laminate , yet others are stamped on REDish compressed fibre - I understand these are dog tags from 'asbestos' , supposedly capable of standing up to retain ID in a aircraft or vehicle fire / munitions explosion ??? Edited April 13, 2017 by ruxy spelin Quote
ferretfixer Posted April 14, 2017 Posted April 14, 2017 RE: Brit ID Discs. The two WWII Era Fibre discs were: 1 x Red which was fireproof. 1 x Green which was Rot Proof Later issue especially to National Service Personnel. were: 1 x OVAL twin hole. 1 x Round single hole. Both in stainless steel. The discs were HAND stamped at Unit level. The individual initially only had an AB64 Pay book issued first. The discs were issued shortly after joining. Much later & current still I believe? Two ROUND stainless steel discs issued. PNEUMATICLY engraved on a machine. By fast 'Dot' engraving machines. The current discs are held in the individuals unit file. Along with his personal docs. Discs only issued, when deployed to a combat theatre. Or anywhere abroad, other than B.A.O.R areas. Quote
Sean N Posted April 14, 2017 Posted April 14, 2017 Interesting, but I am surprised by the story that they trace back to WWII...The examples shown in the photo are 8-figure numbers starting with 22 and 23. The army was only up to 8-figure numbers starting with 24 when I joined in 1975 and many older colleagues had numbers in the 23 series, but they weren't WWII veterans. The article does suggest there are unanswered questions and that these were never issued - which sounds right, as otherwise how would 14,000 odd dog tags return to one place? If you follow the link to his (slightly odd and slightly incoherent) website he does say the tags are pre-, post- and WW2 numbers and gives the number for Driver F. H. Bills mentioned in the article as 14xxxxxx, so perhaps more consistent with your experience. Odd that thousands of dog tags should be stamped up (badly) and never issued, though, unless it's a cover story. Quote
10FM68 Posted April 14, 2017 Posted April 14, 2017 The article does suggest there are unanswered questions and that these were never issued - which sounds right, as otherwise how would 14,000 odd dog tags return to one place? Odd that thousands of dog tags should be stamped up (badly) and never issued, though, unless it's a cover story. I think it unlikely they were "never issued" as such as they would have been stamped only after a recruit had been attested - by, as Ferret Fixer states, the unit orderly room. (I couldn't remember whether it was Records or the unit which stamped them, so thank you for that FF). The varying quality of stamping is also explained by the fact that it was done at unit level. FF also reminds us that, normally, they were held with the individual's documents and issued, against a signature, only when required for operations. Thus it is perfectly possible that thousands of soldiers, particularly those serving for limited periods, either as part of National Service, or with the regulars, never actually received their discs personally even though they would have been "on their file" in the unit orderly room because they were not deployed. The discs would then have been returned to the Records Office along with the soldier's other docs once he left the service. The paper documents would have been archived, but, presumably, there was no requirement to archive the discs and, eventually they were discarded or scrapped. So, I think it most likely that this collection is from those which were returned to a Records office somewhere from units following discharge of the soldiers to whom they belonged and eventually found their way to a dump. Before Records Offices were centralised in Glasgow, there were regimental and corps records offices all over the country, it is possible that, given the location of the find and the regiments to which the discs can be traced, the particular records office which got rid of them can be ascertained. 10 68 Quote
Sean N Posted April 14, 2017 Posted April 14, 2017 The discs would then have been returned to the Records Office along with the soldier's other docs once he left the service. The paper documents would have been archived, but, presumably, there was no requirement to archive the discs and, eventually they were discarded or scrapped ... and eventually found their way to a dump. That makes sense - in fact, a lot more sense than the finder's assertions. Quote
ruxy Posted April 14, 2017 Author Posted April 14, 2017 It is almost as if somebody(s) did not wish to destroy the tags - so effectively they left a 'time-capsule' for the future ? And they seem to be still unearthing tags ! Quote
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