question Bit of help needed Series 2a ex military landy (paint and history)

[Mad.ideas]

Hi Guys,

 

I'm after a bit of help, I recently purchased a Series 2a ex military soft top land rover as a project, Firstly I would like to find out whatever I can about the history of the vehicle while it was in service but have no idea where to start really, so anything one this would be a great help (an idiots guide would be ideal!)

I've been playing around with landys for years so I'm pretty confident with the mechanical side however this one i would like to restore to as close to original as possible so can anyone help with the correct paint colours for chassis, body work, light blue for engine/ancillaries (preferably high temp), ect and a decent supplier would be a again a great help.

 

Thanks in advance!

 

Mad.ideas

[Surveyor]

If you have the original registration this would help with an FOI. I have a draft letter I use for them if you would like a copy

I use John Craddock of Staffordshire for my parts, great service and there returns policy is good as well, there are others

[fv1609]

MI I think wait until you get your history back then you ought to decide what particular era you want to depict.

 

This will determine the colour of the top coat & whether you want to choose an era compatible with fancy unit & formation markings. Even the engine colour, as it was not delivered from the factory in Sky Blue No.101.

[Surveyor]

MI I think wait until you get your history back then you ought to decide what particular era you want to depict.

 

This will determine the colour of the top coat & whether you want to choose an era compatible with fancy unit & formation markings. Even the engine colour, as it was not delivered from the factory in Sky Blue No.101.

 

Clive do you have a list of British Army paint in relation to British Standard Numbers? which may help the novice like me

[fv1609]

Bit of a

 

As far as military Land Rovers go it is as well to ignore most Land Rover forums, where there is talk of Duck egg blue, Duck egg green etc The correct colour for a rebuilt or preserved (preserved may not necessarily mean rebuilt) is BSC 381C No.101.

 

But looking at a number of documents laying down the design specifications for military Rovers produced in 1959, 1961, 1962 & 1963. All the specifications accept the manufacturer's standard engine colour & all of them quote it as:

 

Engine enamel grey Donald Maphearson LSW 703

 

I sent a message to these people, http://www.macphersonpaints.co.uk/Pages/default.aspx

 

"I am doing research into Land Rover engine colours for some contracts for the MOD in late 1950s-early1960s. The enamel engine paint is specified as Donald Macphearson LSW.703

I wonder if you are able to still supply that paint or at least equate it to a BSC 381C or RAL?

I have searched your site & googled but the only results I get are where I have posted the subject on Land Rover forums!"

 

Had this reply:

 

"Thank you for your enquiry with reference to old colour codes for Land Rover. Unfortunately on searching our records we have no information with reference to the colours used. It is possible that this was before Macpherson became part of the Crown Paints."

 

I would have thought they would have known when Macpherson became part of Crown Paints. So anyway no definition of LSW.703.

 

See what I mean? That is just the engine colour.

 

The bodywork would normally be high gloss heat resisting Deep Bronze Green BSC 381C No.224.

 

Then we get into the worms again as many will argue that around 1970 IRR NATO Green BSC 381C No.285 was introduced. Well there was no such colour in BSC 381C until 1980, there was no Defence Standard on IRR paints until 1980, there was no document introducing the use of IRR paints until 1980. During the 1970s there were various schemes & intermediate colours used. I am writing an article about this based on the documentation of the time so I may be a little while.

[Richard Farrant]

All the specifications accept the manufacturer's standard engine colour & all of them quote it as:

 

Engine enamel grey Donald Maphearson LSW 703

 

 

The bodywork would normally be high gloss heat resisting Deep Bronze Green BSC 381C No.224.

 

Then we get into the worms again as many will argue that around 1970 IRR NATO Green BSC 381C No.285 was introduced. Well there was no such colour in BSC 381C until 1980, there was no Defence Standard on IRR paints until 1980, there was no document introducing the use of IRR paints until 1980. During the 1970s there were various schemes & intermediate colours used. I am writing an article about this based on the documentation of the time so I may be a little while.

 

Clive,

My recollection of engine finish from new on military S2a and S3 engines were that the heads, timing covers and cylinder blocks appeared to have been painted a very pale blueish grey prior to machining as the finished engine had black sump and I think other bolt on steel parts were black, the alloy rocker cover and flywheel housing being in bare metal. This means the engine on fitting at the factory was not painted overall. When engines were painted after rebuild by REME or contractors, practically every part of the engine was painted Sky Blue 101, except carb and distributor.

 

Richard

[fv1609]

Richard yes I'm sure you are quite right that originally not everything was covered in engine paint.

 

For those who want to be spot on typical specs for SII.

 

Chassis: Shot blasted then Pinchen Johnson red oxide primer 0541 Primer (Stoving) followed by Berger Chassis Black SB.1179 (Stoving)

 

Springs: Carrs chassis black

 

Not sure how long that daft chassis under-sealing went on for.

[ruxy]

The vehicle refinish over DBG woud be BSC 298 OLIVE DRAB (certainly from late 1960's to abt. 1980 , this colour is very near to NATO GREEN IRR). It was defo. abt. 1980 somebody explained to me about IRR - pointing to a damaged front wing where IRR had sheared off and the colour on the reverse side was pinkish grey. There was discussion as to if this was the IRR component or part of a self-priming system (even old faded IRR if sanded often reveals as pinkish grey). I turned a steam-cleaner on the LR and this paint fell off LoL , I came to the conclusion the DBG had not been correctly de-waxed before re-spray.

 

The factory engine component castings , primer sealer/enamel (applied before machining) used for S2A & S3 inc. some 5mb engines , 5mb changed to red blocks - however I think this is only 'new engine plant' engines. btw - nobody knows what the factory red colour is (to my eye more Red-Oxide than Terracotta)

 

If only Rover Co. had changed to MOWOG , it would have been easier. Nobody knows for certain , I have a new timing case cover , boxed & in dark for donkeys year - sometime I will get it analysed away from the Cosmoline slapped on the machined faces.

 

To my eye - more to the pale-green ,and holding against a colour card - then the nearest is Eau de Nil ,,

 

Yes - such as a ABRO recon cartrige is done in BS381 101 Sky blue

 

---------------

 

btw - about 1998 , at the MOD S3 sell off by MVS , I went in a hangar at Fradley Park and there were three huge pyramids (up to the roof) of the entire MOD stock (I presume) of 3mb blocks. Hundreds of them and although fully machined - I am certain they were unpainted , just dipped in such as Ensis fluid. Strange - approx. 1 month later I was reliably informed non on site as sold !

Edited December 28, 2016 by ruxy
spelin

[Mad.ideas]

Sorry I didn't get a chance to reply last night, babysitting duties! Thanks for all the responses, really useful info on the paint! I've attached a couple of photos of her as she stands, i haven't actually had a chance to look around her in person yet!

No documents sadly, is their a data plate of any kind anywhere or any other way of tracing the history?

Is it worth paint stripping any areas to look for insignia or markings?

[ruxy]

You seem to have a pukka nomenclature plate , passenger side parcel shelf where I would expect it.

 

 

btw - it is a Rover 9 or possibly a Rover 9/1 (Warner & NATO sockets) + convoy lamp used as rear No. plate lamp - easy clues, however the rear cross member has been changed to civvy type , it should be MOD type to mount bumperettes.

Edited December 29, 2016 by ruxy
amd.

[Surveyor]

Looking at the pictures has some one added an aerial?