paulob1 Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 guys does anyone know if this can be done easily, the 220 in the foden really struggles at anything other than gentle inclines and small loads...technically she can haul a full 17 and a half tons, but she struggles with 7 tons... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooky Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 guys does anyone know if this can be done easily, the 220 in the foden really struggles at anything other than gentle inclines and small loads...technically she can haul a full 17 and a half tons, but she struggles with 7 tons... It wasnt very long ago when hauliers were pulling 32ton with 180hp!!! I would suggest first thing to do (if you havent already) is a full service and injector overhaul, bet some of those 220 horse have bolted the stable over the years!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinsaunders06 Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 Hi, I had a Cummins 14litre NHC 250 non turbo in a M816 U.S wrecker weighing 16 plus tons which even though they had got rid of the under powered multi fuel motors it still had the earlier engined gearbox and the ratios weren't good for the lower revving cummins , If you started off in low range and drove right through to high it was fine but it was an effort really and a proper drivers truck to drive getting everything right every time , I fitted from a ERF 325 cummins tractor unit the turbo /manifold /oil supply etc to the 250 which then performed great with I guess only another 25/30 hp increase, Admittedly the 250 didn't have piston oil coolers like the 325 which may of been a prob if worked hard over a period of time but for my use it transformed the truck .. martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosrec Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 time does take a toll on the old girls but we all forget is how things have advanced. What I would have a look at if you havnt already is the aircleaner that used to hold them back. Really bung up quickly if stood about getting damp then used when dusty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 I remember the TMP Ashford using a 16 tonne Foden for collecting vehicles where they towed a 20 ton recovery trailer with it, both lorry and trailer loaded. I would consider looking at the internal state of the engine before even considering a turbo, that or fitting a 305 Eagle as in the Crusader. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
attleej Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 Dear All, I have done this, ie make a 220 a turbo. Members are correct in suggesting that you check that nothing is not holding it back. On the other hand you must expect to have to change down on the hills with only a 220. I took advice from Rolls at Shrewsbury. They said it was all right to fit the turbo and FIP from a 265 and fit it to a 220. The one important point is that the injection timing needs to be retarded a bit from the correct figure for a 265. This is because the 220 has a higher compression ratio than the 265 or any of the other turbo Rollers. If the timing is not backed off the combustion chamber pressures will be too high. If you use a pump from a 265L (and others) it will have boost control. This means the pump will not deliver maximum fuel until the manifold pressure has been increased by the turbo. This type of pump can be identified by a small diameter pipe going between the pump and the inlet manifold. (It is no good just removing the pipe!!) The 305 fitted to the Scammell Crusader does not have this refinement. That is why they can often belch at each 'up' gear change. The boost control radically effects the torque curve. On a 305 it rises very fast from low revs whereas with boost control the curve is much flatter. Unfortunately this means that when you change up the engine might not be able to 'pull the next gear'. The Foden recovery vehicle has boost control fitted. I had a turbo 220 fitted to the Antar for some time until we fitted a 265 with new pistons and liners. Andy Trimmer will tell you that it starts if you put batteries anywhere near it! It is an absolute blinder of an engine. It will certainly stay in the Antar as it is rebuilt. Finally, at Rolls, the Chief Applications engineer said something off the record,very interesting about fuelling. He said that you can "open up a MkIII Eagle until it smokes as much as you can tolereate". I have kept the Antar down to what I think is about 305. Mainly for reasons of fuel economy. I have Rolls literature on these engines. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulob1 Posted May 28, 2015 Author Share Posted May 28, 2015 okay so options seem to be, fit turbo to 265 bhp, thats an extra 45 bhp, about 25% more power... fit a bigger engine, maybe a 305 or a 350 from the daf Drops, wonder what its top speed would be with the auto box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Comber Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 Maybe you should double check your expectations of the 220 and it's performance against another Foden before assuming she is too asthmatic ! My experience of this horsepower is they perform similarly whether partially freighted or right up to weight, obviously if you run out of gears there is an issue! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulob1 Posted May 28, 2015 Author Share Posted May 28, 2015 hmm not sure, I have one with a 320 bhp (guestimate engine, slightly bigger turbo and cylinder head) that runs okay and to be honest it isnt that much more powerful but this old girls smokes a lot and just seems a bit gutless...with or without a load..exactly as you say its the same loaded or not...too gutless for its own good...will get the old foden out and see if I can do a comparison... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosrec Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 seriously before you start doing anything drastic take air cleaner pipe of and give it a blast see if it makes a difference. we had an Iveco cement mixer last year dealer maintained symptoms smoking gutless burning oil fortune spent on injectors pump. We got job because driver refused to drive back to base as actually cutting out. Our driver was getting it ready for suspend towing and asked driver to start up to speed up air build up. Noticed pipe from air cleaner to inlet manifold collapsing took out filter driver said it had never ever gone so well . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 seriously before you start doing anything drastic take air cleaner pipe of and give it a blast see if it makes a difference. we had an Iveco cement mixer last year dealer maintained symptoms smoking gutless burning oil fortune spent on injectors pump. We got job because driver refused to drive back to base as actually cutting out. Our driver was getting it ready for suspend towing and asked driver to start up to speed up air build up. Noticed pipe from air cleaner to inlet manifold collapsing took out filter driver said it had never ever gone so well. I have seen that before with an AEC, driver refused to use it and we found the hose from manifold to air cleaner had de-laminated inside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulob1 Posted May 29, 2015 Author Share Posted May 29, 2015 seriously before you start doing anything drastic take air cleaner pipe of and give it a blast see if it makes a difference. we had an Iveco cement mixer last year dealer maintained symptoms smoking gutless burning oil fortune spent on injectors pump. We got job because driver refused to drive back to base as actually cutting out. Our driver was getting it ready for suspend towing and asked driver to start up to speed up air build up. Noticed pipe from air cleaner to inlet manifold collapsing took out filter driver said it had never ever gone so well. yes but when the air pipe reduces air flow it burns black, I have seen that before too, will give it a clean and check but we service these things regularly and cannot think this has been missed...she is just gutless, maybe its my son who drives it mostly as he is used to the Daf DROPS easy to drive with limited need for forward planning.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gas 44 Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 yes but when the air pipe reduces air flow it burns black, I have seen that before too, will give it a clean and check but we service these things regularly and cannot think this has been missed...she is just gutless, maybe its my son who drives it mostly as he is used to the Daf DROPS easy to drive with limited need for forward planning.. Always nice to know that some things do get serviced regularly, but its also a fact that during a service things get missed regularly. Im going back to where you say she smokes......thats a pointer I would have thought,of course I am no expert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 With regard to basic checks, are you sure that the throttle linkage is actually allowing max. fuel position to be reached at the injection pump? I have come across various older vehicles with incorrectly or badly set up throttle linkages which did not achieve full travel. Currently tackling a Ferret with this issue! I've also come across older injection pumps which require the fuel rack and governor to be manually lubricated - this can also affect performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
attleej Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 We should not forget that it was not that long ago that the Army was using the tanker version to carry 22,000 litres of fuel. You need to carry out the checks suggested. I could give it a try if you like. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulob1 Posted May 31, 2015 Author Share Posted May 31, 2015 will give them a go, not sure its worth a trip yet john, let me have a look...could be a bit of all of it, but the smoking, blue smoke smacks of a tired engine, she has not even done 100,000 if i believe the clock, but that may have been heavy army use and abuse..although in my experience these days, tells me in those days they didnt actually abuse them that much.. although a second opinion would always be useful.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.