question DAF 4 ton tachograph rules

[cossy1]

Hi all it's probably been on the forum before but is a DAF 4 ton used as a private Hgv exempt a tachograph ,

And if so which form is used.

Regards Tony.

[johnwardle]

If you don't use it commercially it should be tacho exempt, my Leyland Daf is registered as a Motor Caravan and is tacho exempt, check the VOSA website, there is lots of information about exemptions on there. Leyland Daf 4 tonners are also speed limiter exempt as you have a hell of a job getting them to go over 56 mph.

[eddy8men]

I had a daf for a while and the way I understood it you were exempt from a tacho as private hgv as long as you don't go 60 miles from your home base, which makes sense as it would be hard to exceed your driving hours on a short journey. there is also a rolling 25 year exemption but most dafs are 91 onwards so not applicable until 2016 which is a long time to be looking over your shoulder for the vosa guys.

I sold the daf and will buy a tm which will come under the 25 year rule, plus it has an 8 ton load capacity with a gross train of 24 ton.

 

rick

 

ps. I have a daf I am selling / breaking if you need any parts.

[cossy1]

I had a daf for a while and the way I understood it you were exempt from a tacho as private hgv as long as you don't go 60 miles from your home base, which makes sense as it would be hard to exceed your driving hours on a short journey. there is also a rolling 25 year exemption but most dafs are 91 onwards so not applicable until 2016 which is a long time to be looking over your shoulder for the vosa guys.

I sold the daf and will buy a tm which will come under the 25 year rule, plus it has an 8 ton load capacity with a gross train of 24 ton.

 

rick

 

ps. I have a daf I am selling / breaking if you need any parts.

 

 

hi Rick

so the only way to get a exemption is the the 60 mile rule .? Motor caravan is out of the question at the moment as the DAF is a cargo canvas variant. So not going to get away with that. Still looking for a box body anybody has one got one for sale . Have you got a working speedo and the Center seat that folds down? And also Is it easy to down rate a DAF to 7.5 ton ?

 

 

Regards tony

Edited March 19, 2014 by cossy1

[Brooky]

hi Rick

so the only way to get a exemption is the the 60 mile rule .? Motor caravan is out of the question at the moment as the DAF is a cargo canvas variant. So not going to get away with that. Still looking for a box body anybody has one got one for sale . Have you got a working speedo and the Center seat that folds down? And also Is it easy to down rate a DAF to 7.5 ton ?

 

 

Regards tony

 

 

If the vehicle is used privately and not in conjunction with a trade or business then no tacho is required as there is no need to record drivers hours

[cossy1]

If the vehicle is used privately and not in conjunction with a trade or business then no tacho is required as there is no need to record drivers hours

 

HI

i have looked at the exemption form and can not see we're a vehicle over 7.50 ton is exempt apart from the 60 miles exemption ?

regards Tony

[cossy1]

HI

i have looked at the exemption form and can not see we're a vehicle over 7.50 ton is exempt apart from the 60 miles exemption ?

regards Tony

Hi just looked at vosa form 75 dated Jan 2010 it has 29 reason not to have a tachograph but not one seams to fit the DAF ? Can not see a 60 mile rule everythink is in kilometres ? Form 75 is the form you need to present at the test centre when taking it for its first test .

Edited March 19, 2014 by cossy1

[eddy8men]

couldn't say how easy it is to downrate a daf but I wouldn't (if you have the license) as a 4 ton load capacity is always useful to have.

 

I have a working speedo but no centre seat i'm afraid

 

rick

[ferrettkitt]

If the vehicle is used privately and not in conjunction with a trade or business then no tacho is required as there is no need to record drivers hours

 

When the vehicle is presented for its MOT that is the point that you have to pass the exemption form to the examiner. So I was told by VOSA. The former Chairman of the MVT Preston Isaacs was fined £250 because he didn't exempt the vehicle at the time of the MOT.

 

Tony whatever you do get in writing from VOSA if you can

[TooTallMike]

Hi,

 

I believe you are being wrongly advised here. This all changed on 11th April 2007 when new EU rules were adopted. Lots of the concessions for Private HGVs were rescinded.

 

Assuming it is a cargo-bodied truck and is plated as being over 7.5 tonnes gross weight it requires a 2-yearly calibrated tacho and you have to use it. You must keep your old tachos as per the rules and you also have to conform to drivers' hours. This is regardless of whether or not your use is private. You are running an HGV and apart from the VED status of 'Private HGV' all other rules apply. You do not require a CPC or Operator's License if not running commercially.

 

There is plenty of info about this all over the internet but make sure you are looking at vehicles over 7.5 as this is the cut-off point where the rules change.

 

One of our group was stopped in our Private HGV truck by VOSA who went through our old tachos and gave him an all-clear, so they CAN AND DO check private vehicles.

 

The so-called '60 mile' rule does not apply to vehicles over 7.5t GVW.

 

Regards - Mike

[cossy1]

Hi,

 

I believe you are being wrongly advised here. This all changed on 11th April 2007 when new EU rules were adopted. Lots of the concessions for Private HGVs were rescinded.

 

Assuming it is a cargo-bodied truck and is plated as being over 7.5 tonnes gross weight it requires a 2-yearly calibrated tacho and you have to use it. You must keep your old tachos as per the rules and you also have to conform to drivers' hours. This is regardless of whether or not your use is private. You are running an HGV and apart from the VED status of 'Private HGV' all other rules apply. You do not require a CPC or Operator's License if not running commercially.

 

There is plenty of info about this all over the internet but make sure you are looking at vehicles over 7.5 as this is the cut-off point where the rules change.

 

One of our group was stopped in our Private HGV truck by VOSA who went through our old tachos and gave him an all-clear, so they CAN AND DO check private vehicles.

 

The so-called '60 mile' rule does not apply to vehicles over 7.5t GVW.

 

Regards - Mike

hi mike thanks for the info which I think is correct. So the only way round this is to fit it out as a motor caravan or down rate to 7.5 tons to avoid fitting a tachograph ?

[TooTallMike]

hi mike thanks for the info which I think is correct. So the only way round this is to fit it out as a motor caravan or down rate to 7.5 tons to avoid fitting a tachograph ?

I think the 'motor caravan' route is unavailable to you due to the gross weight but I'm prepared to be corrected on that.

 

Downrating would do it, but why not just use the tacho? It's as simple as writing your name, the date, journey origin and destination, and the start and finish mileage readings. Keep the old the discs in a box in the cab. Bi-annual re-calibration is cheap and easy to arrange. At least this way you would retain your full carrying capacity.

 

Unless your license is limited to under 7.5t I cannot see why you'd want to downrate.

 

People seem very scared of using tachos but there is really no issue. Certainly in comparison to the effort of down-rating it seems a no-brainer to me :laugh:.

 

Regards - MG

[eddy8men]

rule no.2 of tachograph exemptions states:-

 

vehicle is over 25 years old and is not used commercially for the carriage of goods.

 

this is why I will buy a Bedford tm next.

 

rick

[TooTallMike]

rule no.2 of tachograph exemptions states:-

 

vehicle is over 25 years old and is not used commercially for the carriage of goods.

 

this is why I will buy a Bedford tm next.

 

rick

Ok, but what is it that bothers people about using a tacho? You still have to obey drivers' hours and the other rules, regs. and restrictions, you just don't have to fill in a small piece of paper each time you drive.

 

- MG

[eddy8men]

you have to buy a tacho and have it fitted. I have heard they can set you back £2k, that and all the hassle of getting involved with paperwork. it's just something I personally don't want to get involved with for a wagon I might use 5 times a year but I do see your point, sometimes you can spend more time and money trying to get around the rules than if you had followed them in the first place !

 

rick

[Brooky]

Chances are you would have to fit a digital tacho, dont know whether you can still get analogue ones

I will admit I was wrong in a previous post about it being exempt

Have had another look at the rules and cant see a way out for aDAF 4 tonner

[cossy1]

Chances are you would have to fit a digital tacho, dont know whether you can still get analogue ones

I will admit I was wrong in a previous post about it being exempt

Have had another look at the rules and cant see a way out for aDAF 4 tonner

 

Thanks to you all for your input , will have to have a re think . By the way called vosa on the matter who inform us that due to private Hgv no tacho required . Duffy info from the experts .

 

 

 

regards Tony

Edited March 21, 2014 by cossy1

[Brooky]

Thanks to you all for your input , will have to have a re think . By the way called vosa on the matter who inform us that due to private Hgv no tacho required . Duffy info from the experts .

 

 

 

regards Tony

 

Very possibly, which is what I alluded to in a previous post

A tachograph needs to be fitted if the vehicle comes under the EU rules for record keeping of drivers hours

If the vehicle is private then I suspect it is not in scope for EU drivers hours regs and therefore does not need a tachograph fitted

[TooTallMike]

Very possibly, which is what I alluded to in a previous post

A tachograph needs to be fitted if the vehicle comes under the EU rules for record keeping of drivers hours

If the vehicle is private then I suspect it is not in scope for EU drivers hours regs and therefore does not need a tachograph fitted

There are many many private owners of horse boxes, large caravans, racing car transporters, classic plant transporters and other privately owned HGV-type vehicles out there who would be very pleased if someone could come up with a cast iron argument supporting what you say so please let us know the chapter and verse supporting your view. As previously stated, the 11th April 2007 changes removed loads of exemptions from tacho use including that for privately owned HGVs.

 

As for VOSA supplying dubious info, it wouldn't be the first time. If that happens again try to get the person's name and ask them for written confirmation of what has been discussed. It won't help in court but it's the basis of an argument that you were duly diligent in your research.

 

- MG

[TooTallMike]

Chances are you would have to fit a digital tacho, dont know whether you can still get analogue ones

I will admit I was wrong in a previous post about it being exempt

Have had another look at the rules and cant see a way out for aDAF 4 tonner

Out of interest is there anything to stop one buying a used tacho & sender from a commercial vehicle breakers yard, and fitting it yourself? It would have to be calibrated but then it would be good to go. Incidentally there's a brand new VDO one on Ebay for £175.

 

- MG

[N.O.S.]

Here is a promising-looking extract from the document referred to in this link:

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/rules-on-drivers-hours-and-tachographs-goods-vehicles-in-gb

 

Note there is a nice disclaimer though meaning you can't be 100% certain it is legally correct!!!):

 

 

 

 

GB domestic rules

The GB domestic rules, as contained in the Transport Act 1968, apply to most goods vehicles that areexempt from the EU rules. Separate rules apply to Northern Ireland.

 

Domestic rules exemptions

The following groups are exempt from the domestic drivers’ hours rules:

u

drivers of vehicles used by the Armed Forces, the police and fire brigade;

u

drivers who always drive off the public road system; and

u

private driving, i.e. not in connection with a job or in any way to earn a living

.

 

 

Note also the distinction between EU rules and GB domestic rules - trouble is I can't see where the EU rules also allow exemption for the blanket clause shown in red, and I have no idea if EU rules trump GB domestic rules :nut:

 

In fact the EU rules only seem to allow exemption for vehicles over 25 years old.

 

There is also a possible distinction between rules requiring a vehicle to be fitted with a tacho and the exemptions which apply, and rules requiring drivers to maintain records and the exemptions which apply. One imagines these rules would tie up - but you never know! The document referred to above does however make the point that even if a vehicle is fitted with a tacho, it does not necessarily have to be used if the driver is exempt from keeping records.

I must admit the more I read the less I understand!

Edited March 21, 2014 by N.O.S.

[cossy1]

There are many many private owners of horse boxes, large caravans, racing car transporters, classic plant transporters and other privately owned HGV-type vehicles out there who would be very pleased if someone could come up with a cast iron argument supporting what you say so please let us know the chapter and verse supporting your view. As previously stated, the 11th April 2007 changes removed loads of exemptions from tacho use including that for privately owned HGVs.

 

As for VOSA supplying dubious info, it wouldn't be the first time. If that happens again try to get the person's name and ask them for written confirmation of what has been discussed. It won't help in court but it's the basis of an argument that you were duly diligent in your research.

 

- MG

Just a update vosa have now confirmed in a email that the DAF requires a taco and reading the email we think a speed limiter aswell.

[TooTallMike]

Here is a promising-looking extract from the document referred to in this link:

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/rules-on-drivers-hours-and-tachographs-goods-vehicles-in-gb

 

Note there is a nice disclaimer though meaning you can't be 100% certain it is legally correct!!!):

 

 

 

GB domestic rules

The GB domestic rules, as contained in the Transport Act 1968, apply to most goods vehicles that areexempt from the EU rules. Separate rules apply to Northern Ireland.

 

Domestic rules exemptions

The following groups are exempt from the domestic drivers’ hours rules:

u

drivers of vehicles used by the Armed Forces, the police and fire brigade;

u

drivers who always drive off the public road system; and

u

private driving, i.e. not in connection with a job or in any way to earn a living

.

 

 

Note also the distinction between EU rules and GB domestic rules - trouble is I can't see where the EU rules also allow exemption for the blanket clause shown in red, and I have no idea if EU rules trump GB domestic rules :nut:

 

In fact the EU rules only seem to allow exemption for vehicles over 25 years old.

 

There is also a possible distinction between rules requiring a vehicle to be fitted with a tacho and the exemptions which apply, and rules requiring drivers to maintain records and the exemptions which apply. One imagines these rules would tie up - but you never know! The document referred to above does however make the point that even if a vehicle is fitted with a tacho, it does not necessarily have to be used if the driver is exempt from keeping records.

I must admit the more I read the less I understand!

Indeed - it's important to distinguish between drivers' hours regs and tacho use. They are not the same thing and the requirements and obligations of each do not completely coincide.

 

In relation to NOS's last point - a horse box with a GVW of 7490kg is required to have a tacho and that tacho must have been calibrated at some point in the vehicle's life, but as long as it's only being used privately it does not have to be regularly re-calibrated and tachographs do not have to be used. The reason it has to have been calibrated at some point is that the tacho unit also serves as the speedometer so it has to have been correctly set-up for the vehicle.

 

- MG

[TooTallMike]

Here is a promising-looking extract from the document referred to in this link:

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/rules-on-drivers-hours-and-tachographs-goods-vehicles-in-gb

 

Note there is a nice disclaimer though meaning you can't be 100% certain it is legally correct!!!):

 

 

 

GB domestic rules

The GB domestic rules, as contained in the Transport Act 1968, apply to most goods vehicles that areexempt from the EU rules. Separate rules apply to Northern Ireland.

 

Domestic rules exemptions

The following groups are exempt from the domestic drivers’ hours rules:

u

drivers of vehicles used by the Armed Forces, the police and fire brigade;

u

drivers who always drive off the public road system; and

u

private driving, i.e. not in connection with a job or in any way to earn a living

.

 

 

Note also the distinction between EU rules and GB domestic rules - trouble is I can't see where the EU rules also allow exemption for the blanket clause shown in red, and I have no idea if EU rules trump GB domestic rules :nut:

 

In fact the EU rules only seem to allow exemption for vehicles over 25 years old.

 

There is also a possible distinction between rules requiring a vehicle to be fitted with a tacho and the exemptions which apply, and rules requiring drivers to maintain records and the exemptions which apply. One imagines these rules would tie up - but you never know! The document referred to above does however make the point that even if a vehicle is fitted with a tacho, it does not necessarily have to be used if the driver is exempt from keeping records.

I must admit the more I read the less I understand!

I think you'll also find that all vehicles over 7.5t GVW fall under the EU regs, and not the GB ones. The EU rules make no exemption for private use.

- MG

[N.O.S.]

Having looked through that document in more detail, I cannot see any indication of an exemption or derogation for a non-historic vehicle over 7.5 tonnes, and since this category clearly sits within the scope of EU rules (even though the non-commercial carriage of goods is not specifically mentioned - unlike that clause in UK domestic rules) then the EU rules will apply - not the UK domestic rules.