question How many of the really important tanks of WW2 are left ?

[RattlesnakeBob]

I was talking with a good mate the other day and we ended up talking about military vehicles and such , and he asked ‘does anyone have a Tiger tank?..... I said yes , there were a few still in existence ....but other than the Wheatcroft collection in the UK and the Littlefield collection in the US , no others ( that I knew of ?) were in ‘private’ hands...

I mentioned the others I could think of , being in museums (either nice and tidy ‘inside’ or a few that were a bit rough, mounted as static exhibits outside) and some scattered here and there as roadside memorials . He asked what one was worth and I said that if one came on the ‘market’...... you would need to be a very seriously wealthy individual to even think about acquiring it because of how rare they are...so then of course, he asked....

”So how many Tigers did I reckon were left in the world ?.. how many Panthers ?... and then , how many Shermans etc ?” !!!

I had to have a think before replying ..

So, of the really ‘iconic’ tanks of WW2 ?..just how many do you folks think /reckon/know ...are left in existence??

 

I know some of you are far more familiar with the ‘tank world’ than I so I thought I’d ask on HMVF....

Now to clarify the tanks I’m talking about....and yes I have deliberately left out Soviet JS1s & 2s and German MK4s , Mk5s , Chaffees , Stuarts/Honeys , M26s and a few other British cruisers types.

 

The ‘big six’ as I see it goes like this:

Tiger Mk 1 / King Tiger (Mk 2) / Panthers / Shermans / T34s and finally Churchills

I have included all ‘known’ survivors in my vague reckoning ...from museum pieces either mint or wrecks or currently being rebuilt , privately owned (the same ..either being worked on or complete), battlefield wrecks (such as the Shermans in the Pacific Theatre), range wrecks...any that may still be in Government hands in some of the more obscure countries ( Shermans in Argentina/ Israel /Indian /Pakistan? T34s possibly in former Eastern block countries or Middle Eastern countries maybe?)

So ....here I go to make a fool of myself or not... these figures are my 'best guess' at what is left... in any condition, somewhere ‘out there’ in the world .... what do you all think?

Oh by the way ...

I'm talking about ‘gun tanks’ not any of their variants

Tiger Mk 1s: no more than 15

Tiger Mk2s: no more than 10

Panthers: no more than 30

T34s: probably somewhere between a 500 and a 1000

Shermans: somewhere between 400 to 800

Churchills: less than 100

All contributions welcome no matter how disparaging or otherwise !

Edited November 8, 2013 by RattlesnakeBob

[Cold_War_Collection]

I was talking with a good mate the other day and we ended up talking about military vehicles and such , and he asked ‘does anyone have a Tiger tank?..... I said yes , there were a few still in existence ....but other than the Wheatcroft collection in the UK and the Littlefield collection in the US , no others ( that I knew of ?) were in ‘private’ hands...

I mentioned the others I could think of , being in museums (either nice and tidy ‘inside’ or a few that were a bit rough, mounted as static exhibits outside) and some scattered here and there as roadside memorials . He asked what one was worth and I said that if one came on the ‘market’...... you would need to be a very seriously wealthy individual to even think about acquiring it because of how rare they are...so then of course, he asked....

”So how many Tigers did I reckon were left in the world ?.. how many Panthers ?... and then , how many Shermans etc ?” !!!

I had to have a think before replying ..

So, of the really ‘iconic’ tanks of WW2 ?..just how many do you folks think /reckon/know ...are left in existence??

 

I know some of you are far more familiar with the ‘tank world’ than I so I thought I’d ask on HMVF....

Now to clarify the tanks I’m talking about....and yes I have deliberately left out Soviet JS1s & 2s and German MK4s , Mk5s , Chaffees , Stuarts/Honeys , M26s and a few other British cruisers types.

 

The ‘big six’ as I see it goes like this:

Tiger Mk 1 / King Tiger (Mk 2) / Panthers / Shermans / T34s and finally Churchills

I have included all ‘known’ survivors in my vague reckoning ...from museum pieces either mint or wrecks or currently being rebuilt , privately owned (the same ..either being worked on or complete), battlefield wrecks (such as the Shermans in the Pacific Theatre), range wrecks...any that may still be in Government hands in some of the more obscure countries ( Shermans in Argentina/ Israel /Indian /Pakistan? T34s possibly in former Eastern block countries or Middle Eastern countries maybe?)

So ....here I go to make a fool of myself or not... these figures are my 'best guess' at what is left... in any condition, somewhere ‘out there’ in the world .... what do you all think?

Oh by the way ...

I'm talking about ‘gun tanks’ not any of their variants

Tiger Mk 1s: no more than 15

Tiger Mk2s: no more than 10

Panthers: no more than 30

T34s: probably somewhere between a 500 and a 1000

Shermans: somewhere between 400 to 800

Churchills: less than 100

All contributions welcome no matter how disparaging or otherwise !

 

A point of Clarification if you don't mind?

 

The T-34, you are talking about the T-34 not the T-34/85. Lots of the /85 about. I have interest in the Russian equipment, as My Opa accounted for more than a few '34's with his Stug III

 

thanks

 

Nick

 

CWC Canada

[RattlesnakeBob]

A point of Clarification if you don't mind?

 

The T-34, you are talking about the T-34 not the T-34/85. Lots of the /85 about. I have interest in the Russian equipment, as My Opa accounted for more than a few '34's with his Stug III

 

thanks

 

Nick

 

CWC Canada

 

Sorry ! I did actually mean to lump them all together... the early 'short barreled' version and the T34/85 'long barrel'

[Pzkpfw-e]

Take a visit to http://the.shadock.free.fr/Surviving_Panzers.html and fill your boots!

Tiger 1s

Bov (Runner), Kubinka, Saumur, Fort Benning, Vimoutiers, Lenino-Snegri & Munster (This one's probably been welded together from several wrecks)

Wheatcroft has lots of chunks, probably not enough to cobble together a full shell.

Tiger II

Bov x 2, Saumur (Runner), Munster, La Gleize, Thun/Full (Restoration to runner in progress), Kubinka & Fort Benning.

Again Wheatcroft's acquired several large chunks and special mention to one that's mostly buried under the D913 at Mantes-la Jolie.

Elephants

Kubinka & Fort Benning.

Panthers

26 more or less intact (ie at least hull & turret in one piece, or under restoration), with 10 JagdPanthers & 2 BergePanthers plus several other substantial remains.

T34s & Shermans - profuse numbers! Maybe even some T34/85 still in service in darkest Africa & even darker North Korea.

Churchills

55 with guns or petards, a lot of others with bridges etc, concrete-filled wrecks and other substantial remains.

[RattlesnakeBob]

crikey I'm not that far out with my 'guesstamates' then

...I did read a few years ago that there was a real possibility that the Soviets / Russia still had a large number of T34s in 'storage' .....it was a sort of rumour but then again ...knowing them?? it could well be true.....stashed away somewhere out in deepest darkest Siberia maybe

[mcspool]

The ‘big six’ as I see it goes like this:

Tiger Mk 1 / King Tiger (Mk 2) / Panthers / Shermans / T34s and finally Churchills

I have included all ‘known’ survivors in my vague reckoning ...from museum pieces either mint or wrecks or currently being rebuilt , privately owned (the same ..either being worked on or complete), battlefield wrecks (such as the Shermans in the Pacific Theatre), range wrecks...any that may still be in Government hands in some of the more obscure countries ( Shermans in Argentina/ Israel /Indian /Pakistan? T34s possibly in former Eastern block countries or Middle Eastern countries maybe?)

Shermans: somewhere between 400 to 800

Interesting question, one that held me busy for a good many years. Between 1988 and ca.2002, when I collected data on surviving Sherman tanks and related AFVs, I amassed 1,000+ records on surviving Sherman tanks and related AFVs around the world. One record could represent up to several dozens of tanks, so 10 years ago there were far more than 1,000. During the past decade, with the vastly expanded means of communication (internet, digital photography), many more have been discovered and disclosed. I lost count but would not hestiate putting a bet on 1,500.

 

HTH,

Hanno

SHERMAN REGISTER

[Pete Ashby]

That's a surprisingly high number Hanno, would I be right in assuming none of them are in active service ?

 

Pete

[mcspool]

That's a surprisingly high number Hanno, would I be right in assuming none of them are in active service ?

 

Pete, no doubt many armies have a number of them in storage or retain them for historic / ceremonial duties, but as far as I can tell indeed none are really in active service anymore.

 

The Chilean Army was the last to use them, see my Sherman Encyclopedia > Chile webpage. They even overhauled and upgraded 100 Shermans in the mid-1990s, with at least 48 still on strength around 2002. They did not last long after that as they were replaced by the ca.250 Leopard IV tanks Chile bought off the Netherlands in 1998 and 2000.

 

Hanno

 

Edited November 30, 2013 by mcspool

[Pete Ashby]

Thanks Hanno that's very interesting. At some stage these will hit the collectors market I suppose just like the Stuarts a couple of years ago.

 

Pete