shaun Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 We have finally got round to getting the wagon out for rebuild. It's in good order with only a few parts to find, but still in need of a strip down. The engine and clutch assy is all ready prepared . Next thing is turret off , top armour off and pressure wash and blasting . Photos to follow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun Posted November 3, 2013 Author Share Posted November 3, 2013 Here they are . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wally dugan Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 ex linconshire range ex beverley ex national army museum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddy8men Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 good of you to move the parts donor vehicle closer to the workshop for me :cool2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun Posted November 3, 2013 Author Share Posted November 3, 2013 ex linconshire range ex beverley ex national army museum Thats the one Wally . It's going to live again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun Posted November 3, 2013 Author Share Posted November 3, 2013 That Rick is a double edged sword ! He he he he Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun Posted November 3, 2013 Author Share Posted November 3, 2013 ex linconshire range ex beverley ex national army museum Wally , I love the drivers seat that was fitted ! Do you remember it ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billruston Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 Good luck mate, wil you do a restoration tread on here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wally dugan Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 IT was a manpower services project nothing to do with the museum the fuel tank was interesting a bedford TK just dropped in it was fitted with a re conditioned engine still have the engine number l see it has suffered some damage to the front track guards the man who was most invoved with this is a forum member he recovered it from the range and got the engine as well as giving advice to the M/S PEOPLE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Barrell Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 It's fitted with a 105 too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 It's fitted with a 105 too. Looks like an ex-Chertsey test bed, going by the SP number plate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Barrell Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 The 105 was designed to be a straight replacement for the 20 pdr, the tubes being able to be screwed into the same ring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun Posted November 3, 2013 Author Share Posted November 3, 2013 Hi Wally, thanks for the bit of history. The work did not seem to match your standard of work at MAT. Yes the fuel tank was a Bedford one with green garden hose as fuel line. It still has a cut down office chair as a drivers seat. I have only ever know it with the damage on it , Apparently it happened during the move from MAT to Donnington. I collected it from Donnington about 7 years ago. It will all be made good ! The 105 is in good order, but it looks to have been fitted just so that it had a gun in it for display. Odd bits of plate inside holding it in . I have no ID for the vehicle so always interested if any of you guys know of more info. Yes we will do a resto thread on here . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun Posted November 3, 2013 Author Share Posted November 3, 2013 Looks like an ex-Chertsey test bed, going by the SP number plate Richard I'm not sure if it is the correct number for the vehicle . Would you have more info on the vehicle ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wally dugan Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 Thank you for that shaun the SP number is not for that charioteer its a made up one l have the list of all the charioteers that RARDE CHERSTEY held on there books l think that one was in the ZW range Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 Richard I'm not sure if it is the correct number for the vehicle . Would you have more info on the vehicle ? Hi Shaun, I was taking it on face value that was a Special Project vehicle going by the number, but see that Wally says that the number is not correct. I do recollect on a visit to the RARDE workshops in the mid-Eighties that they had a Cromwell in there as a test bed for some kind of trial, my recollection was that it may not have had a turret on at the time, so wondered if this might have been it but obviously not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun Posted November 3, 2013 Author Share Posted November 3, 2013 Thanks Richard, they did have some nice vehicles in there. The Comet we use to run was an ex test bed vehicle from RARDE. It had some extra bolts welded on the back and front of the hull. Adrain did they stamp any numbers into the hull anywhere on Cromwells ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Barrell Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 [quote=shaun;388714 Adrain did they stamp any numbers into the hull anywhere on Cromwells ? Shaun, not as far as I know, the numbers are all on the plates. Does it have either it's Charioteer or Cromwell plates in it? If it has either, all of it's former identities can be found. It may have its post war number painted on it under newer layers, as Wally states, probably a ZW series. If you need a 20 pdr for it, let me know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
editor486650 Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 This tank was in my trials section at Chertsey in 1975 as 00SP36. The tank had been fitted with a 105mm gun for a sales demo in Lebanon, but the Lebonese stuck with 20 pounders, probably as they had ammunition for 84mm. The gun was removed to RO Nottingham and used in a gunboat demo turret for Hong Kong, returning later to Nottingham. The gunless tank went as a target tug to Shoeburyness. Meanwhile I was busy at Chertsey restoring the Comet for the Army Transport Museum which went on the Dyson trailer behind the Diamond T. But Beverley ended up with more tank transporters, so I got the Cusader 1 for the RECTANK and the 105 Charioteer to go on an Antar. The tank was recovered to Beverley from Shoeburyness and RO Nottingham kindly refitted the gun. (I forced their hands a little over this as I had found the original loan letter in MOD which promised to return the gun as found to the tank). I then helped Wally with the restoration of the tank, providing a new engine, radiators, radiator mountings. The aim was to make it able to get onto the transdporter under its own power, no more. So yes, the fuel lines were as used on motorcars but for a 5 minute task they worked. This is an important tank with its 105mm gun. It represents the last in the line of the A24/27 Cruiser tank series. It really did have that gun fitted and it was demonstrated firing in Lebanon in about 1974 - I spoke to the demo officer who took it there. So please do not revert back to a 84mm tube. And please leave its number plate alone - it was 00SP36 at Chertsey. John Hi Shaun,I was taking it on face value that was a Special Project vehicle going by the number, but see that Wally says that the number is not correct. I do recollect on a visit to the RARDE workshops in the mid-Eighties that they had a Cromwell in there as a test bed for some kind of trial, my recollection was that it may not have had a turret on at the time, so wondered if this might have been it but obviously not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wally dugan Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 HI john wonder if you would pop up and put us right hope you are keeping well and out of mischief REGARDS WALLY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
editor486650 Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 Yes Wally, I can come and have a look at the tank. The main decision needs to be to define what build standard do you want. Do you want a reliable runner externally perfect, or do you want all the internal stowage found and fitted. The stowage bins in the turret had all been taken away by RO Nottingham, but do not despair, as there are a number of Finnish Charioteers being converted back to Cromwell and their stowage bins for the 84mm gun will probably be being scrapped. Dont forget that the 105mm gun used the same stowage bins as the 20 pounder as the case was essentially the same. I would recommend using the full-flow Centurion oil filter, but retaining the existing oil piping for cooling. It only surely needs a single fuel tank, but with proper and safe piping. But where is the vehicle now? HI john wonder if you would pop up and put us right hope you are keeping well and out of mischief REGARDS WALLY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wally dugan Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 JOHN its not any thing to do with me but its shauns and if it was theres no one l would rather want to work with than you on it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun Posted November 4, 2013 Author Share Posted November 4, 2013 John, thanks for the back ground info on the vehicle. Just so it's clear , the Tank is the property of the East England Military Museum not me personally . We have not yet decided what period of its history to restore the vehicle to or what it's going to represent . This is the very early stages of the restoration. The aim is that the vehicle is brought up to a reliable running vehicle . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
editor486650 Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 Please keep the final build standard with the 105mm gun, as it represents the final development of the A24, A27 Cruiser tank series. Yes there is always the temptation to make it a Cromwell, but 00SP36 is unique and should be preserved as such. In 1943 the tank designers said that you could not fit a big 17 pounder gun into a Cromwell, so embarked on Challenger A30 and then Centurion. But they were wrong, as Charioteer showed. When I worked on the tank the suspensions were in good order and shockers held their oil, so there should be no need to strip off the side armour. The suspension greasing/oiling needed to be arranged, but that is fiddly but simple. If in doubt fit piped grease nipples to improve nipple access. Make sure the correct oils are used - the gearbox was filled with OC600 and the hydraulics OM13. I suggest that you do not initially need power traverse, a Tiny Tim or a working generator. The vehicle batteries are only used for starting, after which I turned off the master switch to preserve them. The Meteor 4 I fitted started OK without the need for the booster coil. Make sure both the magstop circuits are working. Make suree the coolant has some antifreeze in it to stop disimilar metal corrosion. You might want to run it without a thermostat, as they can cause a lot of damage if they jam shut. Watch out for asbestos in the exhaust shields and exhaust pipe padding, where the pipes go over the fan assembly - I would fit non-asbestos pads. If there is no petrol tank close to the manifold, then do not fit the asbestos heat shield that side. One possible problem was with the track as the circlips were very rusty. Inside the circlips were grooved spacers which get lost if the circlip fails. You need to fit new circlips and make sure the spacers are fitted - you may need to make some more on a lathe. As with any Cromwell you need to give the driver a good set of mirrors. The driver's vision porthole also has a sliding internal perspex window which needs to be in good condition if you want to drive on grass or in dusty conditions. I checked all the wheels for rimrock, tightened a few wheel bearings, but that will need doing again after this amount of time. The track tension adjusters were seized, but doubtless will move once "persuaded"! If the engine is out then I would fit new hydraulic pipes throughout for the cluch, brakes and steering systems. John John, thanks for the back ground info on the vehicle.Just so it's clear , the Tank is the property of the East England Military Museum not me personally . We have not yet decided what period of its history to restore the vehicle to or what it's going to represent . This is the very early stages of the restoration. The aim is that the vehicle is brought up to a reliable running vehicle . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun Posted November 6, 2013 Author Share Posted November 6, 2013 Once again John , thanks for all the info . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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