question Northern Ireland Piglets (Late 80's & Early 90's)

[roy kinsella]

Hi Guys

 

I was here in 2010 and found your site so helpful, I'm hoping that some of you guys can help me close some chapters on a project I'm researching.

Below are a list of niggling things that I would love some answers to, fingers crossed someone can help;

 

1. I am DESPERATE to find IN-SERVICE photos of late "Factory Fitted" Piglets in N.Ireland. You wouldn't believe how rare these are!! Of the hundreds I've collected from the Late 1980's to the early 1990's, most are likely late VPK Landy's. (I even have found a clean VPK from Belfast 1992)

I have hundreds more of Private restored Piglets and others awaiting disposal or scrap but barely any IN-SERVICE photos! :nut:

 

2. Late VPK kits were heavilly modified and looked similar to "factory fitted" Piglets with the naked untrained eye. Would I be correct by saying that the term PIGLET genuinely referes to the latter "factory fitted" 109 only. I'm aware Squadies possibly called all these armoured 109's Piglets but the VPK variant was just that "VPK" and should not be called a piglet?

3. Regarding the MAKROLON armoured screens which are on top beside the roof hatch. I have seen numerous RESTORED Piglets with this feature added. I have also seen photos of these screens present on vehicles rotting in junk yards. However I have never seen ANY photos of these actually IN-SERVICE.

Is it possible that this feature may have been the last modification that the Piglet saw before it was retired? & could it have been fitted after it was withdrawn from service and put in storage as a reserve or Auxilliary patrol vehicle?

 

4. Following the same theme as above I am also unable to confirm the use or existance of the front fender protection kit seen on restored private Piglets. This is the solid frame protection kit with the inner mesh. It hangs from the front bumper and almost touches the ground. Again I have no photos and wonder about its accuaracy. (I have pictures of vehicles rotting in yards but still no evidence they were used on Active Duty).

 

5. Would I be correct by saying all "factory fitted" Piglets had the following obvious visual details in comparisson to late VPK kits (which also appear to still be in service in the late 80's and early 90's)

 

 

 

• FRONT armoured Windsheild frame.
  
• One piece heavy Armoured Doors with Makrolon Armoured screens protruding (not mesh as a rule)
  
• Air Vent on Passanger side front wing (shielded) rear of wheel arch & forward of passenger door.
  
• One piece armoured rear door (no windows)
  
• Mess Grill covering engine frame (no standard vent cover behind mesh as seen on VPK's)
  
• small armoured plate rear of the cab doors just forward of the rear wheel arches.
  
• cylindrical vent on roof instead of the spare tyre mount.
  

 

 

 

I would really appreciate any help guys, particulary photos!

 

Kind Regards,

 

Roy

[fv1609]

Roy welcome back.

 

That is indeed a comprehensive & well structure post but I'm afraid I can only respond to few points.

 

The "3/4 Ton GS Land Rover Protection Kit FV984568" was formalised in Nov 1980 to convert vehicles fitted with VPK. As you know these VPK vehicles are often incorrectly called Makrolon vehicles misunderstanding that the body protection is from mouldings of GRP.

 

Later modifications in July 1981 make mention that the conversion from VPK vehicle with "High Velocity Protection Kit" took 70.1 hours & also mentions a time of 75.5 hours for a new vehicle.

 

There were further amendments that went on into March 1982, but nowhere is there any reference in the parts lists or the fitting of thing on the front bumper.

 

I have seen one official drawing that makes reference to "Piglet" unfortunately as you know many will also refer to a VPK vehicle as such.

 

Mesh screen guard, roof gutters & fan assembly were all part of the original conversion.

[john18]

Hi

Can anyone advise the correct colour for a 1979 Landrover Series 3, with Northern Ireland VPK?

My log book states green but other documents with the vehicle show a few colour names. So guess I am confused.

[fv1609]

John what particular point in time are you seeking to represent as the vehicle is nearly on the cusp of the general introduction of NATO Green?

 

Is there a 2-character colour code on the vehicle documents?

[john18]

John what particular point in time are you seeking to represent as the vehicle is nearly on the cusp of the general introduction of NATO Green?

 

Is there a 2-character colour code on the vehicle documents?

 

Clive,

The vehicle was manufactured on 18th October 1979.

Army Transport Museum says vehicle came into service January 1980 Sent to Operation Agila initially prior to returning to UK.

Vehicle log book says Colour: Green. No other codes are present.

Ideally I would like the original colour although if it was different for N Ireland, let me know as that is now where the vehicle resides.

I assume any colour is a Matt finish?.

[fv1609]

So are are you wanting to represent the vehicle as it would be in Jan 1980 or later?

 

This is an old can of worms & people will line up to shoot me down & give their take on this thorny subject. But I strongly believe that IRR NATO Green came into general usage at the end of 1980.

 

The Regulations introducing IRR paints was first issued in Dec 1980 & Def Stan for IRR paints was issued Oct 1980 & indeed NATO Green was adopted into BSC381C in 1980.

 

There is some evidence a few vehicle contracts were fulfilled up to two years earlier than this. Note I have said earlier general usage, before that the colour would have been Olive Drab for camo replacing Deep Bronze Green.

[ruxy]

IMHO , LR Ex-Solihull manuf. on 18th October 1979 , would have left "dispatch out" , NATO Green (lusterless) - forget all about DBG , you should be able to confirm - look at places the brush / spray does not touch.

Post VPK , it would have been sprayed , again NATO Green. IRR reflective. probably no black DP applied..

[john18]

Thanks for the reply, I can see how confusing it is. I have looked at paint charts/ samples of DBG, Olive Drab and Nato Green and actually none of them seem to be totally correct compared with original areas of the vehicle.

 

I may just go with Nato Green BSC381C 285.

[Starfire]

If the original paint was IRR NATO Green, it would have faded considerably, even in the spots that were covered up over the years. As a "High Tech" paint in 1980, it was very unstable and had a very short service life. Old vehicles with IRR paint jobs are quite obvious as they get a distinctly blotchy appearance and can sort of look green, brown or pinkish under certain light. As far as I know, the date when they were painted was stenciled on the vehicle somewhere and they had to be repainted ever year or two. I believe that different batches of the paint also varied in colour somewhat; Clive can probably provide more information.

 

Unless you're a real rivet counter, for NI use at around 1979/80 you could pick either OD or NATO IRR Green - either would be pretty correct as it would depend on what contract the vehicle was originally painted under, as well as the individual unit's painting schedule.

 

Cheers,

Terry

[fv1609]

As Terry points outs IRR paints were unstable as can be seen below. This was the life in storage, of course the deterioration accelerates dramatically once painted on a vehicle.

 

 

If you decide to use modern reproduction NATO Green paint it will not have the specified IRR properties of course. Many people choose to use a satin finish paint on the basis that it looks smarter & stays that way for longer. Indeed it does but the original IRR paints were a matt finish.

[billh35]

With regard to item 4 - the front fender kit which extends to the ground (as worn by some privately owned piglets) these were not authentic to military use. RUC Hotspurs had something similar to prevent devices becoming stuck underneath them but piglets did not have that kit fitted.

[johnhughes]

The anti beer barrel bars fitted to RUC landrovers as standard as in the above photos were fitted to some VPK fitted 109s or Piglets for use in certain areas. The HVPK 109 or Piglet had a heavier version of anti barrel bar fitted as standard. I've seen enough of them over the years.

 

J

 

Sent from my ONE TOUCH 983 using Tapatalk 2

[john18]

Hi

Can anyone advise where one could source a piglet roof aerial box? Or provide dimensions/ close up photo to have a box made.

[john18]

Hi

Does anyone have any dimensions/ accurate photos of the roof aerial box on Piglets?

I am also looking for a 'Stop Checkpoint Sign' or if someone could provide dimensions, I will have one manufactured.