wdbikemad Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 Not often covered........but here goes.......I will post some images soon.......:-D British Army "hairy" wool-flannel shirts....... WW2 - pullover style, collarless, no pockets........most have grey zinc buttons, issues from 42-44 plastic....... 1944 - As above but attached collar..........plastic buttons........ 1948-49 - Revised pattern......attached collar, shortened tails, box-pleated breast pockets, epaulettes, plastic buttons... 1951 - As above, but tails lengthened again, front has a lower "wrap-over" cut........... 1964 - "1964 pattern".....as above, but tails shortened, conventional (straight) front, smarter "modern" cut......... 1971 - "1968 pattern" "Shirt Mans Combat"....similar to above but no pleats on pockets..... 1972 onwards - as above, but colour changed from khaki brown to olive drab............this shirt lasted until the poly-cotton "Shirt GS" introduced during the mid-80s..... Typically, with all the above, old stocks had to be used up first........ I have examples of all the above and will post pics soon......:-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exlandieman Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 wore one of the `72 onwards green ones in the Falklands as one of many layers...lol...ive still got a pair of those awful green longjons somewhere also. Only other things i have left are the `plastic` webbing belt and the Doc Martens we all bought to wear instead of DMS and puttees. Aah fond memories of the `top notch` (sic) clothing we were issued with then. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotch Harry Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 1971 - "1968 pattern" "Shirt Mans Combat"....similar to above but no pleats on pockets..... Would be very interested to see one of these compared to the later green ones as have heard mention of them and despite owning probably 10+ of the green and 50s shirts have NEVER seen one of the 197 types. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlienFTM Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 1972 onwards - as above, but colour changed from khaki brown to olive drab............this shirt lasted until the poly-cotton "Shirt GS" introduced during the mid-80s..... Typically, with all the above, old stocks had to be used up first. I was chatting with a QM's clothing storeman about 1985 and the question came up of Shirts, GS. As wdbikemad says, they were about but old stocks were to be used up first. The quantity of KFs in store must have been phenomenal, because even though the only people to wear them were those who were ordered to, most of us got issued two times KF and handed in the same pair at end of service 14 years later (in my case). In 1989 when I left I still hadn't seen one, even on the scores of young clerks who passed through Worthy Down on training courses while I was there in the Computer Centre. In the same conversation, the storeman explained to me why there was a sticky patch on the Mark 3 NBC jacket high on the outside of the left (iirc) arm where nobody could see a chemical detector paper (which was what the patch was for on the wrist) while masked up with a respirator canister fitted as normal (which was when a detector paper would be of interest). When they brought out the Mark 3 NBC suit, the intention was that stick-on rank badges would go on the upper patch so that you did not address the CO or RSM as mucker whilst masked up. Unfortunately the badges were not ready when the suits were and as they became available, they piled up in a warehouse in a depot somewhere because nobody thought to order them, then when they were checked, they were found to have all stuck together to create a single manky rank badge. Something else I never saw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlienFTM Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 1971 - "1968 pattern" "Shirt Mans Combat"....similar to above but no pleats on pockets..... Would be very interested to see one of these compared to the later green ones as have heard mention of them and despite owning probably 10+ of the green and 50s shirts have NEVER seen one of the 197 types. I distinctly remember seeing these though (see my post) I never possessed any myself. Come to think of it, it might have been in the ACF pre-army. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdbikemad Posted February 5, 2013 Author Share Posted February 5, 2013 1971 - "1968 pattern" "Shirt Mans Combat"....similar to above but no pleats on pockets..... Would be very interested to see one of these compared to the later green ones as have heard mention of them and despite owning probably 10+ of the green and 50s shirts have NEVER seen one of the 197 types. There was a feature in a 71 edition of Soldier Magazine showing the various new items coming into service with the army at the time........this included DPM, new coveralls, the TML lightweight trousers, plus the shirts, combat.......interestingly the article mentions that first issues for 71-72 would be khaki (KF) and then green from 72 onwards......... It's fair to say though that the KF shirts were very hard wearing and lasted for years, and there were likely considerable stocks of the khaki version of various patterns remaining that continued on issue well into the 70s.........we had a bod issued with some during the early 80s rather than the green that was almost universal by then, mind you, he was exceptionally lanky.......the combat shirt was made in 4 sizes (0 through to 3) to fit the majority of individuals..........I think Sabre Sales still have a few new examples knocking around....? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tootles Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 We had terrible problems with the KF in Northern Ireland, (early days). There were no washing facilities most of the time, and if you were very lucky and not out on patrol, then the mobile shower unit lads came around about once every five weeks. You took your manky-est kit into the open air shower with you! However, back to the shirts. Because of their composition, the collar band soon became really filthy, and a large amount of the lads were getting terrible neck boils, so much so that we were instructed to wear KD shirts without collars. Needles to say, the KF shirts were beyond local repair, and got used as vehicle rags. The downside was that we had to replace them when back on the mainland at our own expense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airportable Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 This is going to be intresting, got a few shirts my-self! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdbikemad Posted February 5, 2013 Author Share Posted February 5, 2013 I put my green KF shirts, when new, into a bucket full of strong bleach........it burnt off most of the hairyness, and afterwards shoved 'em into a couple of washes in the block machine (usual "boil" setting !!!)........ They were very comfortable thereafter, although had turned a rather odd shade of pale grey-green.........still, looked rather "ally".......:-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airportable Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 Prob. why some of mine are grey/green then! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero-Five-Two Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 (edited) I put my green KF shirts, when new, into a bucket full of strong bleach........it burnt off most of the hairyness, and afterwards shoved 'em into a couple of washes in the block machine (usual "boil" setting !!!)........ They were very comfortable thereafter, although had turned a rather odd shade of pale grey-green.........still, looked rather "ally".......:-D Memories...The boil wash was all part of the shirt breaking in process, along with ironing them dry with the iron on its hottest setting. I got on alright with my issue of shirts hairy, so long as you managed to get a size that fitted, and once you had got them broken in. As for using old stocks first, I served until 1994 and never had a modern GS shirt issued, always had the KF Edited February 5, 2013 by Zero-Five-Two spelling mistake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tootles Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 I put my green KF shirts, when new, into a bucket full of strong bleach........it burnt off most of the hairyness, and afterwards shoved 'em into a couple of washes in the block machine (usual "boil" setting !!!)........ They were very comfortable thereafter, although had turned a rather odd shade of pale grey-green.........still, looked rather "ally".......:-D :-D:-D So how long did they last??? I remember tie-dying Wrangler jeans using bleach, they fell into holes in no time!! Bet your QMS did a roaring trade in new KFs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdbikemad Posted February 5, 2013 Author Share Posted February 5, 2013 :-D:-D So how long did they last??? I remember tie-dying Wrangler jeans using bleach, they fell into holes in no time!! Bet your QMS did a roaring trade in new KFs. They were seemingly indestructable.............I left after 3 years still wearing my original issue........I think I still have one new spare one somewhere mouldering away........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tootles Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 They were seemingly indestructable.............I left after 3 years still wearing my original issue........I think I still have one new spare one somewhere mouldering away........ :idea: IMPRESSED!!! Maybe The Wrangler Jean Co. would be interested in buying your 'formula' lol And whilst on the subject, (sort of), did anyone get issued with a brown jersey heavy wool, instead of the green one? They were great, had elbow patches, a neck drawstring, and didnt smell of mothballs when they got wet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdbikemad Posted February 6, 2013 Author Share Posted February 6, 2013 (edited) :idea: IMPRESSED!!! Maybe The Wrangler Jean Co. would be interested in buying your 'formula' lol And whilst on the subject, (sort of), did anyone get issued with a brown jersey heavy wool, instead of the green one? They were great, had elbow patches, a neck drawstring, and didnt smell of mothballs when they got wet. The "classic" green woolly pully wasn't actually introduced until the early 70s as part of the widescale overhaul of uniforms at the time........the first issue was a loose knit, 100% cotton-drill patches, no epaulettes and had the thick "double-knit" cuffs.......these were replaced from the mid/late 70s onwards by the type we are familiar with today.......if you so a green pully at any 60s re-enactment it's wrong....!!! The older pattern jersey predating the green versions was a derivative of the heavy pully introduced during WW2 as part of the cold weather and mountain ensemble, and were used extensively in Korea........loose-knit ribbed brown wool with a "boat" or "slot"-type neck with a drawcord for tightening......during the 50s/60s khaki-drill patches were added to the sleeves, followed by the shoulders a bit later, and then button-down epaulettes...there is additional reinforcement in drill around the neck opening and cuff-ends.....these have (wrongly) become known as "SAS" pullys (as frequently adopted by SAS troops) when in actual fact they were general cold-weather issue to all by the 60s..........the last few went out of service in the 70s when the green pully replaced it..........last examples were made around 1969-70........they are a distinct brown colour, and the patches a pale khaki "sand" shade....... You can still get replicas of the WW2 and later versions from SOF (Soldier of Fortune) and WPG (What Price Glory) at around £50..........they look good but availability seems up and down. Originals are almost non-existant nowadays........... Edited February 6, 2013 by wdbikemad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevpol Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 here are a few piccys of mine, interesting that the 1952 and 1956 dated are different colours. As I cant get a 1980s "shirt itchy" to fit me would I be right in thinking that a replica from WPG (late WW11 type) be ok? Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdbikemad Posted February 6, 2013 Author Share Posted February 6, 2013 Nice photos !!!! I plan to get over to the farm, dig-out all my KF shirts and photo in sequence.......... Biggest green KF shirt made was a size 3........anything larger was "size special" (made to order via a QM demand).........a 3 should fit up to a 46" chest, 38" waist............... As for the original pattern list I posted, do note that there is some overlap between patterns, manufacturers variants (including colour), and "officers models" that in some cases mirror the issue types but have the odd difference....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eaglehurst Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 Steve - do you know what the largest size was in the 1950's pattern shirts as per Chevpols examples in the photos? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdbikemad Posted February 6, 2013 Author Share Posted February 6, 2013 Steve - do you know what the largest size was in the 1950's pattern shirts as per Chevpols examples in the photos? Jason - have you been in hiding...????!!!!!!!! (I think) they went up to size 8, similar range to windproofs, etc,..........but by the 70s this was rationed down to 4 standard sizes "0 to 3"............ PS - Jason, join the "Forces 80" group on Facebook....hugely interesting, livelier than the Forum at times, and good for kit.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eaglehurst Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 Jason - have you been in hiding...????!!!!!!!! LOL - thanks Steve...and yes been a bit quiet as of late. Just not acquiring the same amounts of kit as I was last year.... Thanks for the heads up on 'Forces 80'. They have a great website and although I have avoided Facebook like the plague I may give in if there is good banter... Iirc I have a 1953 dated size 6 KF shirt and a 1951 dated NOS size 7 (goodness only knows where they are however) so was curious as to the sizing regime for this issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlienFTM Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 We had terrible problems with the KF in Northern Ireland, (early days). There were no washing facilities most of the time No such problem by 1976. We had industrial launderette-style washing machines and driers with the coin slots removed or deactivated, both in barracks and in the RUC stations on the border. Before going on stag, stick your dirty kit in the washer on a two-hour hot wash. End of stag, put it into the drier for two hours. Job done. Just don't try this with your woolly pulley: I saw examples that would have been tight on Barbie after this treatment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlienFTM Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 :idea: IMPRESSED!!! Maybe The Wrangler Jean Co. would be interested in buying your 'formula' lol And whilst on the subject, (sort of), did anyone get issued with a brown jersey heavy wool, instead of the green one? They were great, had elbow patches, a neck drawstring, and didnt smell of mothballs when they got wet. I got one issued in the ACF about 1971. Gutted: wanted a proper green one. You forgot to mention the slits in the shoulder so that you could feed the epaulettes of your shirt through, requiring only one set of rank badges and shoulder titles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdbikemad Posted February 7, 2013 Author Share Posted February 7, 2013 I got one issued in the ACF about 1971. Gutted: wanted a proper green one. You forgot to mention the slits in the shoulder so that you could feed the epaulettes of your shirt through, requiring only one set of rank badges and shoulder titles. I think the "slits" were on the lighter-weight non-ribbed pully, V-necked (to allow it to be worn beneath the open-neck 49 pattern BD blouse in cold weather), with patches and in green.........believe it or not, this item was intended as part of the jungle kit (!), later adopted as a general issue for many troops............the heavy pullover had no such slits, although later issues in the 60s did have in some cases sewn-on cloth epaulettes.....:-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero-Five-Two Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 Mark Always made me laugh seeing these labels, at the height of all the tension in Ireland, a large proportion of the British Army uniform was made in Belfast!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdbikemad Posted February 7, 2013 Author Share Posted February 7, 2013 1970-72 production 1968 pattern combat shirt in khaki........green from 72 onwards........:-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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