paulob1 Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 (edited) slab with an 8 ton stlawart on the back, steeper hills than they look... Edited November 14, 2012 by paulob1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 Wrong link, methinks? Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulob1 Posted November 14, 2012 Author Share Posted November 14, 2012 dumb ass me...changed for the right one... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snort Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 Nice steady Driver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m109a3uk Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 But they get stuck on wet grass dont they? Good job there hope you had a good one at the weekend! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chambers101 Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 I'll always remember at Scammell Road Run 2001 when a Foden drops driver asked to drive the Stalwart.My dad was like no wayyyy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulbrook Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 Is that Long Valley? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulob1 Posted November 15, 2012 Author Share Posted November 15, 2012 ah they get stuck on wet grass when the diff locks are not working. all working now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robin craig Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 Paul, I cant help but vocalise a few thoughts that come from watching that, they are not meant as to be critical, im just trying to learn more, we came cose to buying one of these that was left over from BATUS and may still yet do so. Q1. does the load not want to be secured down tighter to stop so much secondary wibbly wobblyness? Q2 it looks so arse end heavy as to not be sane. Comments? R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulob1 Posted November 15, 2012 Author Share Posted November 15, 2012 hi Robin In answer to your questions.. the stalwart is mounted on the rack with four doubled up ratchet load binders each of 6 tons working load and 18 tons minimum breaking strain, four of them, with doubled up chain with a minimum breaking strain of 21 tons, so one chain block alone will hold over 36 tons before anything will break....thats nearly five times the weight of the stalwart, and there are four of these one on each corner..... The rack is not held on physically it just fits under the loading lugs on the chassis, and the big hook this allows it to twist and bend so allowing flex in the chassis. Yes the stolly is a little bit rearwards on this occasion, it should have been about 12 inches further forward but at 8 tons its not going to task the trucks load limits or its balance...as is shown by its off road ability... The ural electrics died on the day and not only did the old girl have to haul the stolly she had to haul the Ural on a straight bar 25 miles back to site...she worked very hard that day... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulob1 Posted November 15, 2012 Author Share Posted November 15, 2012 oh and forgot to add the stolly is held by her hull not on the wheels so the suspension of the stolly moves, hence the chain movement...when we stopped prior to going on the road the chains were tightened somemore, but you will always get some bounce in the suspension if you fix to the hull not the wheels... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulob1 Posted November 15, 2012 Author Share Posted November 15, 2012 Is that Long Valley? no Slab common REME army training ground...great place for a bit of fun... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulbrook Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 oh and forgot to add the stolly is held by her hull not on the wheels so the suspension of the stolly moves, hence the chain movement...when we stopped prior to going on the road the chains were tightened somemore, but you will always get some bounce in the suspension if you fix to the hull not the wheels... Not saying a word.................... Actually MMLC were always not too bad cross country, especially with a load (pretty rubbish without) just hampered by that dead second axle. The Scammell IMMLC was a 6 wheeler and there was serious discussion post Gulf War 1 about either removing the second axle or fitting the hubs with hydraulic motors that could be driven in extremis from the hydraulic system. No-one was interested in persuing it though for obvious reasons. We used to worry about all the testing being done at Long Valley and similar though, as these locations gave folks a very optimistic assessment of cross country ability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robin craig Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 Paul, Thanks for your various replies. Some how, crossed chains and load binders work so much better for big kit like this than ratchet straps ever can in as much as the ability to draw a load down, my opinion based on a number of years of heavy equipment moving, not embraced by everyone else. Fair play if you like them. R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulob1 Posted November 16, 2012 Author Share Posted November 16, 2012 Paul, Thanks for your various replies. Some how, crossed chains and load binders work so much better for big kit like this than ratchet straps ever can in as much as the ability to draw a load down, my opinion based on a number of years of heavy equipment moving, not embraced by everyone else. Fair play if you like them. R I personally hate ratchet straps and straps for anything much bigger that a car...always prefer chains.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulob1 Posted November 16, 2012 Author Share Posted November 16, 2012 Not saying a word.................... Actually MMLC were always not too bad cross country, especially with a load (pretty rubbish without) just hampered by that dead second axle. The Scammell IMMLC was a 6 wheeler and there was serious discussion post Gulf War 1 about either removing the second axle or fitting the hubs with hydraulic motors that could be driven in extremis from the hydraulic system. No-one was interested in persuing it though for obvious reasons. We used to worry about all the testing being done at Long Valley and similar though, as these locations gave folks a very optimistic assessment of cross country ability. My first venture off road with it was when the diff locks would not work it bogged down at the first bit of mud. so have always been a bit wary of it...however now I have the diff locks all working reliably it is much better...and yes she struggles a bit more without the weight on the back...assume the suspension being unloaded does not give as much and hence some of the wheels have no grip....I am however getting a bit more adventurous with it now... however its a road truck mostly so off road playing will always be limited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulbrook Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 Its actually quite interesting looking up the definitions of Medium Mobility and Improved Medium (MMLC and IMMLC respectively). It was an attempt to come up with a series of specs that guaranteed certain things could be done. As well as our two DROPS contenders there was a LMLC (Low mobility) - the Foden 16 tonne - and a HMLC (Stalwart). The only difference in cross coutry related specs (ground pressure, power to weigh, ground clearance etc) between IMMLC and HMLC was amphibiosity. At one point we trialled a IMMLC 8tonne variant - the so called Big Wheeled Bedford with fast deflating (but very slow inflating) tyres. Central tyre inflation was too much for the beancounters. Thus the MMLC was supposed to have a decent capability off road - and it did, although not in the same league as the Foden or stolly or whatever. The fact that they are still cutting it in the sand (quote the procurement executive at the time in response to our we dont think its all that good in sandy conditions - "this vehicle is being procured for northern germany. It will never ever be deployed anywhere sandy") is testament to the fact that they are actually half decent when not on hard standing. Diff locks in early, plenty of momentum and no sharp turns were, and presumably still are, winners every time. Oh and always carry a rack so that you can caterpillar out of trouble in extremis... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulob1 Posted November 16, 2012 Author Share Posted November 16, 2012 Its actually quite interesting looking up the definitions of Medium Mobility and Improved Medium (MMLC and IMMLC respectively). It was an attempt to come up with a series of specs that guaranteed certain things could be done. As well as our two DROPS contenders there was a LMLC (Low mobility) - the Foden 16 tonne - and a HMLC (Stalwart). The only difference in cross coutry related specs (ground pressure, power to weigh, ground clearance etc) between IMMLC and HMLC was amphibiosity. At one point we trialled a IMMLC 8tonne variant - the so called Big Wheeled Bedford with fast deflating (but very slow inflating) tyres. Central tyre inflation was too much for the beancounters. Thus the MMLC was supposed to have a decent capability off road - and it did, although not in the same league as the Foden or stolly or whatever. The fact that they are still cutting it in the sand (quote the procurement executive at the time in response to our we dont think its all that good in sandy conditions - "this vehicle is being procured for northern germany. It will never ever be deployed anywhere sandy") is testament to the fact that they are actually half decent when not on hard standing. Diff locks in early, plenty of momentum and no sharp turns were, and presumably still are, winners every time. Oh and always carry a rack so that you can caterpillar out of trouble in extremis... caterpillar out now that sounds intersting, more explanations please... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m109a3uk Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 Using the rack to push your self out!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 caterpillar out now that sounds intersting, more explanations please... This would be the technique where if the DROPS started to bog, you off load the rack untill the rear touches ground and allows it to push the truck forward, this can be repeated until you are free to regain grip. It was in the training video I recall ........ 21 years ago when I did the diagnosis and maintenance course at Borden, time has passed so quick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulob1 Posted November 17, 2012 Author Share Posted November 17, 2012 wow never thought of that, will have to give it a try...sounds plausible. it only works forward I guess unless the truck is empty then you could use the arm to pull the truck backwards maybe..or fix the load to something and pull backwards bit of an emergency measure but suppose in an emergency it could work... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulbrook Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 I am not sure it is still taught and allowed but in my day as long as you were on a reasonably level ground the get out of the mud drill was to unload the rack whilst remaining in gear. Sometimes the mere shift in weight off the front axles and onto the rears would be enough to regain traction, but if not then you keep unloading until the rack engages with terra fima then keep pushing - about 6 ft at a time - dragging the rack on and off till you were clear of the goo. Throughout this you remain in drive. The downside was that you could only go forwards so if matters were getting stickier then it could go a bit Pete Tong. Mind you as long as you were in drive the moment you got a bit of traction you could boot it a bit (top tip though - if you lost it again then you slowed right down rather than let the wheels spin) Now ask me how we managed without spare wheels and what the original drill was for dealling with a flat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m109a3uk Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 Was it to put the flat onto the non driven axle and strap it up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulbrook Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 (edited) Was it to put the flat onto the non driven axle and strap it up? It was - almost. You took a wheel off the second axle, strapped the hub up using a ratchet strap and ran on 7 wheels. We once sent a Foden MMLC off for a week and it spent the majority of it like that. It never missed a beat, although constantly cross loading the wheel with the flat was a pain. Oh and I think for civilian use this definitely falls into the "don't try this at home" category...... Edited November 17, 2012 by paulbrook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosrec Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 It was - almost. You took a wheel off the second axle, strapped the hub up using a ratchet strap and ran on 7 wheels. We once sent a Foden MMLC off for a week and it spent the majority of it like that. It never missed a beat, although constantly cross loading the wheel with the flat was a pain. Oh and I think for civilian use this definitely falls into the "don't try this at home" category...... to be fair i think the best think to have done with both the scammell and the foden was to have strapped up the non driven axle completely or thrown them away and forgotten about C U regs while in crown service. i belive the extra axle was a liabilty in off road work although the scammell i had never let me down in down right difficult situations what little time i had it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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