Billruston Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Are universal carriers/Bren gun carriers British or American? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rnixartillery Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Are universal carriers/Bren gun carriers British or American? British and Canadian, T16 is the Yank version ! Rob..................rnixartillery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billruston Posted October 23, 2012 Author Share Posted October 23, 2012 Do you no any for sale? That need restoration? Bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajmac Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 (edited) To add to Robs post.... Bren and then Universal (at a glance looks the same) designed and built in Britain, also manufactured in Canada during the war. T16 was designed by Ford USA and built in the states for British WD order, looks like a Universal just a bit longer, one extra wheel per side. Windsor was designed by Ford Canada and built in Canada and arrived in Europe late 44 or 45 IIRC, looks like a Universal, just a bit longer, one extra wheel per side. Loyd was built in Britain, about the same length as a T16, looks like it is back to front and nothing like a Universal. Universals come up for restoration quite often, lots being left on farm and in logging areas in Canada in the years after the war, not cheap mind. Try Clive Hughes (Hughes movie supplies on milweb), I believe he has brought in one or two projects this year, could well be already sold though... Edited October 23, 2012 by ajmac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billruston Posted October 23, 2012 Author Share Posted October 23, 2012 Thanks mate! Are they hard to find for sale? Ovbiously not a mint one but one that needs a good restoration? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billruston Posted October 23, 2012 Author Share Posted October 23, 2012 What engines would they have in them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Not so easy to find, especially in the UK. The guys in Canada and Australia still seem to find some in the bush. There's this one on Milweb if it's not already sold. http://www.milweb.net/webverts/63442/ There is also a dedicated carrier forum on MLU. http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=6 Here's my 1944 MK2 Canadian (not for sale) Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon_M Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 What engines would they have in them? Ford flathead V8, not a fun engine compared to some, but still plenty around Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billruston Posted October 23, 2012 Author Share Posted October 23, 2012 That's a nice looking carrier!! Wanna swap for my k9 haha, any way if you ever come across one for resonable price that needs restoration could you pm me please mate? Would be very apriciated , that carrier on mill web what's it worth in your opinion? Nice carrier you've got, got any history on it? Bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajmac Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 I know the PO of the UC on milweb, it was purchased by the dealer for over £30k within the last year, so one would presume he is looking for between £30k-40k. It is 100% original and you are unlikely to find one in those terms very often. Projects seem to be around £10k when largely complete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rippo Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Hello, Whilst carriiers are being discussed can someone tell me where the oxford carrier comes into all this? and why are there so few about? thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajmac Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 (edited) Hello, Whilst carriiers are being discussed can someone tell me where the oxford carrier comes into all this? and why are there so few about? thanks Very late WW2/immediate postwar, a number of improved carrier designs were put forward and the Oxford adopted, but in the end FV432s and others took over the role in the late 50s. A carrier book I have states 'Oxford Carriers saw limited post war service, last vehicles disposed of in 1964 in unissued condition', the Cambridge Carrier followed but it states that only pilot versions were built before the project was stopped. Also the Australians designed and built the own universal carrier called the LP during the war. Edited October 23, 2012 by ajmac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddy8men Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 an old customer of mine showed me a few pics of him in korea during his national service and he has an oxford so at least we know they served in korea. rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Lee Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 To add to Robs post.... Bren and then Universal (at a glance looks the same) designed and built in Britain, also manufactured in Canada during the war. T16 was designed by Ford USA and built in the states for British WD order, looks like a Universal just a bit longer, one extra wheel per side. Windsor was designed by Ford Canada and built in Canada and arrived in Europe late 44 or 45 IIRC, looks like a Universal, just a bit longer, one extra wheel per side. Loyd was built in Britain, about the same length as a T16, looks like it is back to front and nothing like a Universal. Universals come up for restoration quite often, lots being left on farm and in logging areas in Canada in the years after the war, not cheap mind. Try Clive Hughes (Hughes movie supplies on milweb), I believe he has brought in one or two projects this year, could well be already sold though... Dont forget that us Aussies produced the LP1, LP2 and 2 pounder carriers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rnixartillery Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 (edited) Bill, If you are looking for a bren carrier to restore contact Clive hughes as he has a couple,they are in need of FULL restoration though. There are still a couple of Oxford carriers about ,two being in one private collection but as mentioned very seldom seen in public,infact I have a full set of original manuals for the Oxford. just to throw another bone, what about the Cambridge Carrier ...........................? And finally I think those Aussies built the best one, the 2 pdr attack carrier..............................well done lads ! Rob,....................rnixartillery. Edited October 24, 2012 by rnixartillery Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pzkpfw-e Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 The known surviving Oxfords are in the Military Museum of the Chinese People's Revolution, Beijing, Victorious Fatherland Liberation War Museum, Pyongyang (I assume they're war booty from the Korean War), Bov's got one tucked away somewhere & the one or two in very private collections in the UK. Cambridge Carriers are even rarer, again Bov's got one somewhere, the other known survivior is in the Swords and Ploughshares Museum, Kars (Canada). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajmac Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Dont forget that us Aussies produced the LP1, LP2 and 2 pounder carriers. I didn't, its at the bottom a later post.....when I remembered carriers outside of the NW Europe theatre! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Lee Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 I didn't, its at the bottom a later post.....when I remembered carriers outside of the NW Europe theatre! My bad, well I expanded a little bit. We also produced a mortar carrier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajmac Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Don't worry about it, I guess we can expand on Universals a bit too: At a glance... Mk1: External Battery box on the back over the axle and two head lamps. Mk2: Long Bin Box replaces battery box over the axle and one head lamp on the left mounted higher than a Mk1. Mk3: As Mk2 but welded together rather than rivited. Put an astyrix after the number and it means it was manufactured in Canada, e.g. Mk1* The 'No' prefix indicated where the engine was manufactured, either UK, Canada or USA, e.g. No1Mk1 I get the impression that Canadian Mk2s were shipped over to Europe for the fighting in 1944-45 and most never made it back to Canada, thus the majority of the restoration projects that are brought over from Canada today are Mk1s that never saw service overseas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bedford Boys Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 Don't forget, the Kiwis built Carriers too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Lee Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 Don't forget, the Kiwis built Carriers too! Did you fellas over the ditch, produce the same range of LP carriers like we in Aus? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nz2 Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 Those built in New Zealand were welded in construction. I have been told the riveted ones here are the English in origin. Of the English manufacturers Thornycroft apparently built many using rivets. Is there a list of English manufacturers available showing numbers produced and type of construction, whether riveted or welded? Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redherring Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 Did you fellas over the ditch, produce the same range of LP carriers like we in Aus? Now I might be completely wrong about this - a redherring? - but I was admiring a New Zealand built carrier at Ferry mead many years ago. It looked the image of the Australian carrier. On enquiring as to its lineage I was told that the New Zealand units were built from steel that was not armour-plated because the plate was not available in NZ during the war. Is this true? Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bedford Boys Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 (edited) Now I might be completely wrong about this - a redherring? - but I was admiring a New Zealand built carrier at Ferry mead many years ago. It looked the image of the Australian carrier. On enquiring as to its lineage I was told that the New Zealand units were built from steel that was not armour-plated because the plate was not available in NZ during the war. Is this true? Robert No, it is not 100% true. Our LP1 carriers were not armour plated, and as such had a small triangular plate on the hull that stated they were not armoured. Our production LP2's and LP2A's were armour plated, and you can see this as many hulls feature plate with a "proofing mark" on them. (Bascially a dent near the corner of the plate). Our LP carriers were very similar to the Australian model, but featured detail differences. As for rivetted carriers in New Zealand, they are of both English and Canadian origin, from manufacturers ranging from Ford to Sentinel Wagon and everything in between. There are also a number of English built welded hull carriers in this country, as well as some actual Bren Carriers (not Universals). There were also a bunch of Loyd Carriers that came to New Zealand too. As far as I am aware, no Windsor or T16 Carriers came to New Zealand, however, there is a Windsor carrier dash in our friends shed, and another friend has the exhausts for a T16. How they came to be in the country, I do not know. Edited October 31, 2012 by The Bedford Boys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redherring Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Thank you for the correction. I am intrigued to know where the New Zealand carriers were made? In Australia we had a significant heavy industry in the motor companies, railways workshops, and the steelworks centered in Newcastle. A good start for building war materiel. By the way, there is a fascinating book written on the subject by Andrew Ross being "Armed and Ready - The industrial development and defence of Australia 1900-1945" Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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