R Cubed Posted February 8, 2013 Author Share Posted February 8, 2013 Air brake chambers.. !! What are the differences in them, there seems to be many different ones but most look the same? I can understand that there could be mounting and rod differences but do they all work by pushing when air is applied or can some pull ? Do any have springs in them to make them return to the rest position once there is no air in them ? What does the Service system do ? What does the emergency system do ? Is there then just an ordinary system which is used under normal circumstances to work the brakes ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.O.S. Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 What's wrong with a schematic from a Bedford MK? That's air over hydraulic too, and easier for someone on here to post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gritineye Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Bernard yes please if you could scan something it might be of help to expand my knowledge of this airie thing I am about to get involved in..................... Hopefully John will come up with the correct manual, if not if could you narrow your requirements down to specific areas, that would be make things much easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.O.S. Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 This'll keep you quiet for a while: :yawn: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R Cubed Posted February 8, 2013 Author Share Posted February 8, 2013 What's wrong with a schematic from a Bedford MK? That's air over hydraulic too, and easier for someone on here to post. Yea sound good, did not realize they were air over hydraulic ! Ok anyone got a schematic from a Bedford MK ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R Cubed Posted February 8, 2013 Author Share Posted February 8, 2013 This'll keep you quiet for a while: :yawn: AAAAGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH :nut: :nut: :nut: :nut: :nut: :nut: :nut: :nut: :nut: :nut: :nut: :nut: :nut: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Degsy Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Richard, be VERY careful with spring brake units, they can kill. Please don't touch them at all until you fully understand them. I have witnessed the damage that they can cause. Not nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gritineye Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Richard, be VERY careful with spring brake units, they can kill. Please don't touch them at all until you fully understand them. I have witnessed the damage that they can cause. Not nice. Good call Degsy, second that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.O.S. Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Perhaps we should understand a bit more about what you are planning - spring brakes and CCKWs doesn't sound like a good plan...... Anything to do with putting an air over hydraulic servo on a CCKW and straight air brakes / spring air chambers on a gun by any chance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Perhaps we should understand a bit more about what you are planning - spring brakes and CCKWs doesn't sound like a good plan...... Anything to do with putting an air over hydraulic servo on a CCKW and straight air brakes / spring air chambers on a gun by any chance? Richard, I am with Tony (NOS) on this, we need to know what vehicle you are intending to convert before any real advice can be given. I would think if it were a GMC for instance, an air over hydraulic unit to assist the hydraulics, and one spring brake chamber for the handbrake. A friend of mine fitted a diesel in a Bedford QL and did it this way and it has been quite succesfull. The advice from Gritineye about spring brake chambers is very important. I have rebuilt a good number and you need the correct compression tool and even then it is not foolproof. I once saw a guy doing on of these at work and minutes later I heard a spring flying across the floor hitting everything in its path. Expecting the worst I went to see if he was alright and he was sat on the floor with a look of bewilderment, luckily for him it went away from him, else it would have knocked his head off. regards, Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gritineye Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 The advice from Gritineye about spring brake chambers is very important. Can't take the credit, I merely agreed with Degsy on this point... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.O.S. Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Can't take the credit, I merely agreed with Degsy on this point... Wasn't he talking about spring lambs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gritineye Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 (edited) Wasn't he talking about spring lambs? Yeah... them lambs will take your head off as soon as you offer them a rubber teat! :rofl: And so would I ..:angry Edited February 9, 2013 by gritineye putting myselt in the lambs place.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Yeah... them lambs will take your head off as soon as you offer them a rubber teat! :rofl: All useful information here, hope Rcubed is taking notes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R Cubed Posted February 9, 2013 Author Share Posted February 9, 2013 Richard, be VERY careful with spring brake units, they can kill. Please don't touch them at all until you fully understand them. I have witnessed the damage that they can cause. Not nice. Good call Degsy, second that! Richard,I am with Tony (NOS) on this, we need to know what vehicle you are intending to convert before any real advice can be given. I would think if it were a GMC for instance, an air over hydraulic unit to assist the hydraulics, and one spring brake chamber for the handbrake. A friend of mine fitted a diesel in a Bedford QL and did it this way and it has been quite succesfull. The advice from Gritineye about spring brake chambers is very important. I have rebuilt a good number and you need the correct compression tool and even then it is not foolproof. I once saw a guy doing on of these at work and minutes later I heard a spring flying across the floor hitting everything in its path. Expecting the worst I went to see if he was alright and he was sat on the floor with a look of bewilderment, luckily for him it went away from him, else it would have knocked his head off. regards, Richard All useful information here, hope Rcubed is taking notes Yep guys, all notes being taken, quite agree with comments on springs I am very aware of the sorts of forces that can be contained in compressed springs so there is no need to worry on that case as I will not be venturing in to anything I don't fully understand. As I have never interfered with air brakes ever before I have posted here to find out more before I decide what to use. So here we go this thing here I would say is an air brake chamber, I presume these also contain springs but not VERY STRONG to aid in the return of the operating mechanism to a rest position ? This beasty here I would call a spring brake chamber as I presume in one of the black chambers there is a big nasty spring strong enough to hold the brakes on full ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Degsy Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 Wasn't he talking about spring lambs? Well.......almost as dangerous, a mate of mine lost an eye to the horn of a lamb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R Cubed Posted February 9, 2013 Author Share Posted February 9, 2013 (edited) Perhaps we should understand a bit more about what you are planning - spring brakes and CCKWs doesn't sound like a good plan...... No don't want to go down this route I do not want brakes coming on with no air. But do want added safety in respect to dual circuits and brake gun as you say. Anything to do with putting an air over hydraulic servo on a CCKW and straight air brakes / spring air chambers on a gun by any chance? How do you know this stuff have you got a camera hid somewhere watching my every move :cool2: Edited February 9, 2013 by R Cubed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Degsy Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 [quote=R Cubed;355262 How do you know this stuff have you got a camera hid somewhere watching my every move :cool2: Never heard of Big Brother? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 Richard, You need to elaborate a bit more on your towing vehicle, as you don't appear to wish to do so, let us take a GMC CCKW for an example. If it were to be dieselised, heaven forbid , you will have the facility of an air compressor, but still retain hydraulic brakes. There is a master cylinder which then goes to the vacuum booster / servo. The easy way to do this is remove the booster and fit a unit such as the Airpak, (used in Stalwarts, but also in commercial vehicles in the past). This does the same as the booster, receiving pressure from the master cyl. when brake pedal is actuated. Only this time it opens air from a resevoir (which will have to be fitted), to boost the hydraulic line pressure. It can also be adapted to apply air pressure to trailer brakes. My suggestion is to check out the braking system of a Stalwart, preferably a Mk1 as that only had one master cylinder and airpak, the Mk2 had a dual system that could confuse, but should offer the same information and give you an idea of what components you will require. They had a full air trailer braking facility. Hope this is of some help. :-) regards, Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TooTallMike Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 Assuming the above hypothesis is correct, and having previously researched dieselising CCKWs myself, I would remove the compressor from the engine and blank off the hole. I'd then install a vacuum pump to run off the engine and fit a modern servo in place of the hydrovac. I'd also fit a twin circuit master cyl. GMC brakes are pretty good when set up right and I don't believe it would be worth the effort of converting to air brakes. The alternative if you are determined to go air/hydraulic is to install an air drier with an unloader valve and let that deal with limiting pressure. It means the compressor is running constantly but the Knorr Bremse units run this way as standard. - MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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