Pictures of Humber Pig Belfast 1973

[fv1609]

Shamlessly nicked from my regimental Facebook page. It would appear to be 49 Fld Regiment (55 The Residency Bty) RA in Lippstadt around 1962?I'm only posting this because the registration may be of use, and no, I was still at at school then!!

 

27 BK 36 FV1612 FFW Struck off BAOR 9/5/68 . You can see it is still FFW & not been upgraded to FFR as the 4th antenna base on the rear offside (UK offside!) is absent.

 

My old Pig was BAOR but the Union Flag was at the apex above the rear doors.

[Strangely Brown]

The Pig in the background has the registration 28BK53.

 

 

[marvinthemartian]

Good pics, love the old black & white in service shots.

[fv1609]

The Pig in the background has the registration 28BK53.

 

FV1612 FFW Struck off BAOR 19/8/70

 

Recovered Ludgershall 4/7/72 for NI as FV1611 role & uparmoured in Op Bracelet

 

Later fitted with RPG protection in Op Kremlin

 

13/9/94 Struck off to "MIT2 ARMD J WELLS" (whatever that means!)

[Strangely Brown]

Thanks Clive, I'm impressed!

[private mw]

great pics once again ,

[Rover8FFR]

Great images and thanks for sharing

[AlienFTM]

As long as I'm not boring the pants off you lot!

 

Belfast 1973, these two vehicles belonged to ATO and were attending a suspect package in Glenalpin Street which turned out to be 4 candles and an old alarm clock!

 

 

You sure it wasn't fork handles?

 

;o)

[mike65]

Nice pictures thanks for posting.

It is good to see pictures from peoples collections.

So much must be lost through people thinking they are worthless and binning them.

At least with film there was a phusical item that helped preserve them.So

I cannot help but think about the amount of "history" that will be lost, so much easier, with digital images.

 

Mike

[Peakrec]

I have a Humber Pig mk2 up armoured, not been touched for 20 years, it still has the lot number and blue cross painted on the front, registration 21BK96. I am the first owner after the Wheatcroft Collection purchased 4 from the Ministry. Engine running correctly now, brakes to do next. Nigel.

[fv1609]

Nigel can you post some pictures up especially of the cab controls, the engine bay & chassis plate please?

 

Are you aware that this vehicle is very rare & if not unique in its history?

 

I think I came across the owner 30 years & he sent me a copy of the record card, but I never actually saw the vehicle.

[Peakrec]

Hi Clive, can you explain on its history a little please. I will sort some pictures for you, for as I know Wheatcroft bought 4 from the ministry and I have owned it ever since, 07/08/93. Its totally untouched inside and out, apart from I had to cut the left hand rear aerial mount off to get past my house. Nigel.

[fv1609]

Nigel 21 BK 96 was like all 1 Ton Humbers originally soft skinned & in this case a FV1601 delivered to 21st B Vehicle Depot Feltham on 11/10/54, Contract No. 6/V/27455, Receipt Voucher No. FTM/R/3245, Engine No. 7858

 

Unlike the Pigs that started to be made in 1959 yours was not made into Pig.

 

However in the period 1962-3 it was made into a Hornet FV1620 & was struck off census on 22/10/70

 

On a date unknown it was recovered by 18 Command Workshops, then went to CVD Hilton on 6/12/73, then VSD NI 12/2/74, then HQ APC Admin Staff NI 20/3/74, then struck off census at disposal sales 6/9/92

 

It was converted (body transplant) to a Pig & up-armoured in Op Bracelet that ran from Sept 1972 to June 1973. So when it arrived at Hilton it was already converted presumably at Bovington.

 

It would be interesting to see if it still has the same engine which would have been a B60 Mk 5F not a 5A as originally. It is widely held by various authors, no doubt influenced by the EMERs, that state 5A. But they are wrong you should still see the engine plate showing 5A but it should be over-stamped as 5F. This indicated that the original Generator No. 1 with a measly 12A output was replaced by the Generator No.9 which was a 100A alternator.

 

I would be interested to see if much in the way of internal fittings remain as a lot of stuff had to be jammed around dash area & whether the alternator is still there. If it was it would explain why HQ Admin bagged it.

 

Why take the body off an existing Pig? Why not get that going? Well of the 200 Pigs recovered for Op Bracelet many were in a poor state & Op Marble to assess the time taken to make them serviceable showed that Pigs were taking twice as long than anticipated & many had not had scheduled upgrades that were laid down in the EMERs. So automitively a Hornet used by an elite Airborne unit (Para Sqn RAC) only a few years before would be in a better state than the average Pig recovered from a scrapyard. Reading the SITREPs of the time there was a desperate shortage of Pigs & parts that could be cannibalised. With the wheel stations failures alone meaning at any one time 80 Pigs were out of commission needing these rebuilt.

 

So a very intriguing history that must be unique.

[chrisgrove]

Hi guys

You might get bored with me! I have about 25 pics of in-service pigs in NI; Mk 1s in 1969 at Palace Barracks Holywood and Mk 2s at Fort Monagh in Andersonstown a few years later. Complete with pastel emulsion paint decoration courtesy of Turf Lodge and one hit by a 3.5 rocket launcher. Watch this space but its my bedtime now. But no funnies like flying pigs as we never had any!

Chris

[fv1609]

Bored never!

Chris oh yes bring them on please.

Mk 1s in 1969 ooh.

Always looking for pictures of mine 28 BK 08 & 27 BT 95 (yes BT)

[Starfire]

Excellent thread and I look forward to more pics.

 

I'd love to get my hands on a Pig one day.

 

Cheers,

Terry

[chrisgrove]

Right guys; first installment. Sorry Clive the first two are Mk 1s from Palace Barracks Holywood in 1970, not 69 (according to my record of service anyway). And, by the way, the AoS on the left of the second pic, which my machine has blanked out, was 39/9 in white on a red square. Colour of those Mk Is was DBG (ie, slightly shiny) with matt brown patches

 

The next three are Mk IIs from Fort Monagh Andersonstown in about 1976 or 77.

 

That's all the black and white ones; next installment will be in glorious technicolour.

Chris

Edited December 12, 2016 by chrisgrove

[fv1609]

Chris thank you very much for sharing those & letting us savour the detail.

 

This brown on gloss DBG is extraordinary for an urban situation. I have a few examples in colour pics, but without your commentary there would be others unidentified if its in B&W. Strangely the Commer water cannons Triton 1 & 2 did also sport this scheme. I have never knowingly seen it in other theatres but it was one of several unusual paint schemes described in a 1971 RAC manual. Of course during the 70s there was considerable turbulence in the ideas of how to move away from plain DBG before the eventual adoption of NATO IRR Green.

 

What is that on the N/S wings of the Mk 1 Pigs? Sandbags? But why not on O/S as well? Although looks a sort of saggy canvas, not good with incendiaries.

 

31 BK 00 was being used by the Parachute Rgt in IWM Ref 70/29/3 in agreement with your date of 1970 I assume.

 

13 BK 06 appears in British Army in Ulster Vol.1 Page 214. It acquired a 3-bar ram (not adjustable & a poor mimic of the type used by the RUC RF) & can be seen in news footage of Bloody Sunday.

 

09 BK 75 I see still has a pre-NATO tow hitch.

 

Moving onto the Mk 2 pics. Excellent detail of the mesh hoods which seem to have been very short lived. The white board on the O/S wing is very mid 70s. Presumably it was a safety-visibility precaution. Was it actually white or silver (as in the aluminium paint inside) was it wood or metal but clearly a similar size the the registration plate on the N/S?

 

23 BK 25 appears in British Army Equipment Page 22

 

They are very much of the mid-70s as you say, because of the position of the wing mirrors halfway down the engine covers. The EMER to move the mirrors to the front of wing was issued in May 1977. Incidentally is that the edge of a Piglet on the left? Any pictures of that?

 

So the colour ones please when you can.

[chrisgrove]

Hi Clive

 

Herewith next installment - maybe some still in BW as the colours are so muted that its quite hard to tell at a casual glance. When I've finished the pigs, I'll give you some fibreglass armoured vehicles - most, as far as I remember are from Derry, just post Motorman.

 

I'll study your questions, but am not sure I can answer many of them! Apologies for any duplicates; photobucket is not showing my pic numbers!

 

Sandbags on Mk Is - I have no idea - never even noticed them! But I attach a better pic of one for you.

 

 

White panels on offside mudguards; I have a faint memory that they were like blank reflective number plates, so plastic, white, reflective.

 

Chris

Edited December 13, 2016 by chrisgrove

[NIGELCOXY]

These pictures are great,keep them coming.

[fv1609]

Chris thank you for those. Nice to see gloss DBG without the embellishment of too much red paint, indeed confined to the nuts on the studs of the divided rim wheels as they should be. A few red hubs there, originally intended to signify Birfield joints fitted due to a shortage of special steel from Germany as 104 Mk 2s did not receive Birfield joints & had to survive on rebuilt Chobham joints & even Tracta joints recovered from GS Humbers. (Not as one SITREP describes Tractor joints)

 

Not seen 05 BK 06 before but someone got carried away with the red paint. I have seen a few so painted, was it just something done in idle moments, but I would have thought just keeping the external surfaces painted was a big enough task? Or did it mean that a red seated vehicle had some special (command?) role so that troops running to embark their Pigs with doors open not able to see the registration plates could identify it?

 

The Mk 1, by a process of elimination, must be 31 BK 00. There were webbing straps provided on the front wing for carrying a camo net, but I suspect could also serve to carry the canvas from the roof. Judging by the continuity of the surface on this & the earlier pictures these would be right size for a folded canvas, but not useful to carry around in an IS situation. But I'm now sure they would not be limply filled sandbags.

 

As there is no O/S rear antenna mount on the Pig to the right of 31 BK 00 it is probably a FV1611, although if it was a FV1612 it would be FFW but not FFR.

 

The taking of all these pictures of vehicles in isolation shows remarkable dedication & forethought, a valuable archive. So often pictures show chaps standing proudly in front of their vehicles but often obscuring details & particularly the registration plates.

[Peakrec]

Nigel 21 BK 96 was like all 1 Ton Humbers originally soft skinned & in this case a FV1601 delivered to 21st B Vehicle Depot Feltham on 11/10/54, Contract No. 6/V/27455, Receipt Voucher No. FTM/R/3245, Engine No. 7858

 

Unlike the Pigs that started to be made in 1959 yours was not made into Pig.

 

However in the period 1962-3 it was made into a Hornet FV1620 & was struck off census on 22/10/70

 

On a date unknown it was recovered by 18 Command Workshops, then went to CVD Hilton on 6/12/73, then VSD NI 12/2/74, then HQ APC Admin Staff NI 20/3/74, then struck off census at disposal sales 6/9/92

 

It was converted (body transplant) to a Pig & up-armoured in Op Bracelet that ran from Sept 1972 to June 1973. So when it arrived at Hilton it was already converted presumably at Bovington.

 

It would be interesting to see if it still has the same engine which would have been a B60 Mk 5F not a 5A as originally. It is widely held by various authors, no doubt influenced by the EMERs, that state 5A. But they are wrong you should still see the engine plate showing 5A but it should be over-stamped as 5F. This indicated that the original Generator No. 1 with a measly 12A output was replaced by the Generator No.9 which was a 100A alternator.

 

I would be interested to see if much in the way of internal fittings remain as a lot of stuff had to be jammed around dash area & whether the alternator is still there. If it was it would explain why HQ Admin bagged it.

 

Why take the body off an existing Pig? Why not get that going? Well of the 200 Pigs recovered for Op Bracelet many were in a poor state & Op Marble to assess the time taken to make them serviceable showed that Pigs were taking twice as long than anticipated & many had not had scheduled upgrades that were laid down in the EMERs. So automitively a Hornet used by an elite Airborne unit (Para Sqn RAC) only a few years before would be in a better state than the average Pig recovered from a scrapyard. Reading the SITREPs of the time there was a desperate shortage of Pigs & parts that could be cannibalised. With the wheel stations failures alone meaning at any one time 80 Pigs were out of commission needing these rebuilt.

 

So a very intriguing history that must be unique.

Thank you Clive, I have found in some paperwork that my Humber was a missile platform, since you high lighted it. I will get photos when I have daylight to record them. Nigel.

[chrisgrove]

Sorry guys; family crisis has left me with no time for the next installment today. Tomorrow, I hope.

Chris

[chrisgrove]

A few more!

 

Once again; aplogies if I've duplicated any. The grandchildren are here for a few days before Christmas and its bedlam here!

Chris

[fv1609]

The first Pig has new front wings these have no lockers & of a thicker steel supported by two parallel wide top-hat sections underneath. So they didn't normally sag like the earlier ones which would often reveal the pattern of the cruciform reinforcing strips underneath.

 

The view of the rear doors open is interesting & suggests this is after March 1975. On the right hand door to the left of the red handle for the use of the crew, I can just make out a small horizontal bar. This was so that the driver could lock the rear doors once the crew had debussed to protect himself & the empty Pig.

 

This bolt was formed by a small rectangular piece of bar with an end piece bent up at the end for the driver to operate. It is a shame that the man with the red paint brush didn't highlight the end of this bar, unlike most of the other red paint, this might have been useful for the driver scrambling into the back in the dim light trying to secure the vehicle to see this small end of the bolt.

 

This modification was not in an EMER, rather than the time delay in getting MVEE approval, it was locally designed & implemented as:

N IRELAND LOCAL E AND M ENGINEERING INSTRUCTION WHEELED VEHICLES N 257/2 (N IRELAND) MOD INSTR NO.1

 

The last Pig looks as if was a part-time Flying Pig. You can see a wing supporting strut above the rear wheel arch where the lockers once were. At first I thought it was 11 BK 68 but that was struck off (& not recovered) in 1967, I think it is 11 BK 56 which was indeed a Flying Pig.