exoduschris Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 I've heard people recommend removing the front prop shaft on Bedford M types for normal road use to save MPG but others say it leads to problems in the transfer case. Anybody any experience/knowledge of this? Thanks all, Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RattlesnakeBob Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Admit to not knowing anything about MJs but.... I can't think of anything that could result from removing the front prop having done it (either from reasons of frugality or out of necessity/breakdowns etc) on countless 4 wheel drives such as Landrovers & Toyotas & all manner of others.... and also other 4x4 stuff such as dumpers and tractors etc over the years ..... can't honestly think what could be so different about a Bedford transfer box????? but .hey..you're asking in the right place to get the info :-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andythesquirel Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Hi, i do not know about the Bedford MJ, is this a permanant 4 wheel drive vehicle or changable? If changable surely removing the front propshaft will have no bearing on saving MPG, as it wont be turning anyway. If it is a permanant 4 wheel drive, usually the front propshaft needs to remain in place to ensure that oil lubrication remains in the front diff. If the propshaft is removed the front diff will start to seize over time. I have an old series Land Rover with dis-engageable free wheeling hubs. Same idea, in that when engaged and in 2 wheel drive (ie front propshaft not turning) the wheels don't turn the diff. This does reduce mechanical friction, and thus increases rolling speed, and MPG, but if it is not re-engaged every so often to re-lubricate the front diff, it seizes over time. With old vehicles it is very much a case of lack of use of mechanicals can cause more problems. Sometimes we have to live with poor MPG:-( Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.O.S. Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 (edited) Andy - it is selectable fwd, in 2wd everything is turning at the front - just not connected to transmit power (like a standard series landrover). If you remove the prop and run in 2wd the transfer box front output flange will be stationary - which could possibly lead to wear between output flange and shaft? If you put it in 4wd this would avoid any such problems. But the point is the front axle will still be churning around, so the only saving will be the rotation of the front prop (not exactly a heavy lump) - I wouldn't have thought it was worth the hassle (mind you the front prop sliding splines do wear fast :cool2:). You'd need to remove axle shafts or something to get any significant saving! Edited July 30, 2012 by N.O.S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.O.S. Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 One benefit of keeping the prop turning is it acts like a miniature flywheel - you need all the momentum you can get when going over speed bumps :-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.O.S. Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 (edited) You can see the potential problem if the flange and shaft are not both turning (plain bush between shaft 7 and flange - by 13): Edited July 30, 2012 by N.O.S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gritineye Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Not worth the trouble taking it off, definitely not if you're thinking of visiting shows in fields, as a couple of members on here found out at W&P this year....:whistle: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robin craig Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 From experience, as a newbie MJ operator, the first one we received Ro Ro via Halifax on the east cost of Canada was locked in 4wd when i got it out of the port. As I was not aware of the vaguaries of the system I was battling against myself to get it into 2wd. Being away from home base it was easier to get a mechanic to drop the front shaft and drive as is the whole way home, it takes 2 solid long days of driving by the way! We have used the truck on a regular basis ever since and never a problem. Obviously, we have since learned the tricks to the switching between two and four wheel drive. R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Due to the design of the front output on the transfer box, the bushing in the flange will wear out short time if it does not turn together with the shaft when in 2WD. i have posted some horror pics on here before, when an MJ was front suspend towed, without the rear propshaft removed. Will have to dig them out again just to enlighten you MJ owners! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.O.S. Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 ......the first one we received Ro Ro via Halifax on the east cost of Canada was locked in 4wd when i got it out of the port....... it was easier to get a mechanic to drop the front shaft and drive as is the whole way home, it takes 2 solid long days of driving by the way! ..R That would not have been a problem Robin, as the flange would have been locked to the shaft due to being in 4wd position, so they both turn together. If you are still using it without the prop, but with levers in 2wd position, it might be an idea to select 4wd again (those levers are silly aren't they? I had to scheme a new system when fitting a tipping cab - I now use Morse cables and levers down the front of the cab in front of radiator). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robin craig Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 NOS, we refitted the shaft once we got home so the problem is over. What I have found is that the drivetrain wants to be fully relaxed when going between 2 and 4 wd, wheels straight. Now it is easy peasey. It was quite the drive I do have to say, some of you should look at the distances. I did it all solo. The first departure from Halifax ended when I had sparks coming out of the exhaust. Typical of a "new" vehicle ex uk mod it had sat around for a while. I put back into Halifax and had the fuel system drained and flushed and new filters fitted. We did find later on that the brass screen in the lift pump had been overlooked but that it had done its job. Anyhow, at the end of the first day on the road I made it to Edmunston, New Brunswick and parked for the night at a motel. In the morning I awoke to snow and I needed fuel and it was a long downhill into the town for that and then a long uphill to rejoin the Trans-Canada highway. Being a CALM variant I had little weight on the rear, and bar grips didnt help. The only way I could get motion started was to back up under the gas station canopy on the clean forecourt and take a run at it. I was slithering and sliding up the main street cursing the lack of 4wd. It was an adventure but in retrospect fun. R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAPIER Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Hi I ran Bedfords for years as passanger carrying overland trucks in Africa.We used to run with the front prop shafts off most of the time we were on tarmac.Never had any transfer box problems.We did it more to save the splines that developed more play when in freewheel as it were.I guess there was a marginal fuel saving not dynamic.It did seem to make for a slightly quieter cab at higher speeds on black top. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjbsophey Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 From experience, as a newbie MJ operator, the first one we received Ro Ro via Halifax on the east cost of Canada was locked in 4wd when i got it out of the port. As I was not aware of the vaguaries of the system I was battling against myself to get it into 2wd. Being away from home base it was easier to get a mechanic to drop the front shaft and drive as is the whole way home, it takes 2 solid long days of driving by the way! We have used the truck on a regular basis ever since and never a problem. Obviously, we have since learned the tricks to the switching between two and four wheel drive. R Do you mean you bounce it out of 4wd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robin craig Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 No, bouncing is not what I suggest. Drive in a straight line for a few meters and push in the clutch as you come to a stop, leaving parking brake off. Then do your shifting with the levers and it goes either way in a charm. Dont forget to use clutch again, seems to help. R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.O.S. Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 Sometimes you can't do it one way - if it doesn't pop out after a few meters forward, simply back up few meters or so and it will :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.O.S. Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 ....We did it more to save the splines that developed more play when in freewheel as it were.....:-) Glad I'm not the only one who has this problem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exoduschris Posted August 3, 2012 Author Share Posted August 3, 2012 Thanks for all the replies. Running without the front prop certainly makes for a smoother ride in the cab. Regarding the transfer case front output flange mine already shows significant wear/play (before running without front prop). The prop UJ and splines are fine and the pinion nut is tight - the play is at the flange only and is presumably due to wear at the flange bush. Does anybody know if the flange bush can be replaced on its own or is the solution a replacement flange with bush? Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.O.S. Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 The shaft will be harder than the bush. I might be tempted to pull the flange out and try a new bush (won't be a lot of £) on the shaft before going to the bother of changing it - I'm sure it will reduce the play, the shaft also be inspected for wear at the same time. It wouldn't become a major headache until the excessive play knocked the oil seal out :cool2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Take a look at this link, post #6 http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?18845-Bedford-MJ-Transfer-Box&p=206794&highlight=bedford+transfer+box#post206794 you will see what can happen when a transfer box flange lets go, this instance was caused by a front suspend tow, without removing rear propshaft, the flange was stationary and shaft rotating, eventually the propshaft and flange broke free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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