jeep/buffalo

[Nickmow]

Oh thats a rare variant you have there Lancs' There where a couple of types of carpet/fascine layers trialled by the yanks and by the 79th but imagery is sparse, thats a real gem of a photo !

 

Edit:

looking again it looks like a sort of Jerry rigged deployable Bridge ? Maybe the Girders detach and the Plank ladder forms the bridge surface ? Ive seen the sandmat/carpet layers but this is a new one. Excellent and thanks so much for sharing

 

 

More editing: Its an LVT 2 thats for sure (zoomed in shows the detail of the support members on the Flaps over the Front drive wheels. Cracking stuff

Edited December 10, 2011 by Nickmow

[Willyslancs]

have another mate ..........

 

 

 

 

(Doodlebug, an LVT-2 with ramp off White Beach, Tinian at 1730 D-day plus 1.)

Edited December 10, 2011 by Willyslancs

[Nickmow]

I count 6 of them (bridge type thingy ones) ! Im in LVT Heaven do any of the piccies come captioned ?

[Willyslancs]

 

I count 6 of them (bridge type thingy ones) ! Im in LVT Heaven do any of the piccies come captioned ?

will have a look mate ........

[Willyslancs]

Coast Guard manned and Navy landing vessels, marines of the 2nd Marine Division go ashore at Ihiya Shim, small island lying northwest of Okinawa in the Ryukus.

The landings were virtually unopposed by the Japs. In this photo made by a Coast Guard combat photographer shortly after H-Hour, the background is darkened by a portion of America's naval might.

[Willyslancs]

I count 6 of them (bridge type thingy ones) ! Im in LVT Heaven do any of the piccies come captioned ?

Captions added mate .............:cool2:

[Nickmow]

Epic, thanks so much for sharing them mate. Doodlebug eh ?

[Degsy]

Got to admit I've never seen those before or of course my memory could have failed(again). Were thay designed to be driven into a hole or stream and then allow tanks etc to go over the top?

[Nickmow]

You might be thinking of the Churchill Ark ? Designed to do just that. These doodlebugs appear (reading the captions). To be a Ramp ? Placed to get over low obstacles, like maybe the low log sea walls encountered in the Pacific. All speculation on my part mind you;)

[Degsy]

Yes I was thinking of the Ark and wondering if it was a different take on the same problem.

[Nickmow]

Degsy, your probably not far off, The Ark had ramps at the front and back (if you didnt know). Just parked itself in place be that against a seawall or in a ditch. Looking at the Doodlebug here, Im thinking it drove up to the obstacle dropped the Girders with planks on top on/over it and backed off, leaving a ramp/bridge in place, as the carpet payed out in front. Again looking at the pictures, that looks like a case of chopping a rope or two . Seems with the Ark and its brothers we where streets ahead in developing specialist vehicles back in the day. Have tried an epic Tinterweb search and have yet to come up with precious little reference to the Doodlebug that w'lancs has so kindly shared with us.

 

Edit of course 5 seconds later I found this

 

In the write up the chap does say he's sort of speculated as to how it was exactly, but this looks like a pretty good effort to me !

Edited December 12, 2011 by Nickmow

[Degsy]

I'm not trying to contradict you and you may well be correct Nick but for something that is just going to be dropped there seems to be a lot of support on the frame as if it was a permanent fixture on the vehicle. On the other hand there is only a ramp at one end which would seem to support your theory. It would certainly be interesting if something could be found to give us a definitive answer, there must be someone, presumably in the States who remembers using these in the Pacific.The sad thing is that this knowledge is going to fade away very soon with the demise of the last of the vets.

[Nickmow]

Mate, I surely wouldnt take offence at being contradicted :-). Its all speculation on my behalf (and the bloke that built the model). Always good to have a different take on a mystery. Looking at the model again, you may just have a point, a sort of up and over bridge, maybe theres another bit that tags on the back,maybe carried by the next LVT ? I'll keep on a digging.

 

Edit, had a closer scan of my Concord Pulblications US Amtracs and Amphibians at War 1941-45, which says "One of the inovations at Tinian was the use of "Doodlebugs", These were amtracs modified with a timber ramp. They where intended to beach against high sea walls, allowing subsequent waves of amtracs to crawl over them and over the walls. Twelve where built and they proved successful". Degsy you seem to be right, Just cant figure how you would get a Vehicle up the back end. Unless .... you reversed the LVT up against the wall and lowered the Front ramp ? then it would make perfect sense ! Another great WW2 mystery solved folks LOL

 

Even more editing : How bout this from an account of the battle of Tinian:

 

"Seabee ingenuity provided the way with portable vehicle ramps called “Doodlebugs,” which could be emplaced by LVTs, allowing more access for tanks, halftracks, 75 mm howitzers, trucks and jeeps."

 

See the wording "ramps" suggests to me that they where "deployed or dropped", which looking at the photos, the sort of support rail is not very substantial and is curved all the way down at the front, Im going with the thing is plonked against a wall, the LVT reverses out from underneath it and leaves the ramp in place as it flops off the front. Oh heck its too late to keep thinking this hard LOL. Over to you Degsy :nut:

Edited December 13, 2011 by Nickmow

[Degsy]

Well that's still inconclusive then as those two statements seem to be totally contradictory. I find mysteries like this totally fascinating and you have done brilliantly to find out anything about these vehicles when apparently only 12 were built presumably for the one specific operation. My previous comment regarding vets in the US still stands but with so few being built and with the number of vets dwindling there may be no one left who would remember them. Perhaps we will never know the answer.It may be worth posing the question on G503 forum, there is a section there which covers this type of vehicle but I haven't had chance to search it, something I will do if I get time.

[Nickmow]

Not wanting to stray off topic but this youtube clip shows (right at the end) the Ark in action. Before that theres some great footage of inflatable decoys and some of the other funnies in action

[Degsy]

Great clip Nick, thanks for posting.

[Willyslancs]

probably too late.........

[Joris]

Not another buried Sherman, THEY ARE EVERYWHERE! :shocking:

[Willyslancs]

yep they are mate !

[Nickmow]

Not another buried Sherman, THEY ARE EVERYWHERE! :shocking:

 

Dont think the first one is a Sherman, looks like the Rear end of an LVT track to me :laugh:.

Smashing pics again WL thanks for sharing.

The Last LVT(A)4 looks like a prototype, with an M8 turret dropped onto it. Dont think the production ones had the brackets or whatever the vertical lines are on the turret for hanging spare track links on, fitted.

Edited January 5, 2012 by Nickmow

[Joris]

I wonder why they would bury a prototype, was it THAT bad? :cool2:

[Nickmow]

I wonder why they would bury a prototype, was it THAT bad? :cool2:

 

Think I got me threads crossed Oopsie,that or its a prototype of an UnderBeach Assault Vehicle ! :red:

[Sean N]

Edit, had a closer scan of my Concord Pulblications US Amtracs and Amphibians at War 1941-45, which says "One of the inovations at Tinian was the use of "Doodlebugs", These were amtracs modified with a timber ramp. They where intended to beach against high sea walls, allowing subsequent waves of amtracs to crawl over them and over the walls. Twelve where built and they proved successful". Degsy you seem to be right, Just cant figure how you would get a Vehicle up the back end. Unless .... you reversed the LVT up against the wall and lowered the Front ramp ? then it would make perfect sense ! Another great WW2 mystery solved folks LOL

 

Even more editing : How bout this from an account of the battle of Tinian:

 

"Seabee ingenuity provided the way with portable vehicle ramps called “Doodlebugs,” which could be emplaced by LVTs, allowing more access for tanks, halftracks, 75 mm howitzers, trucks and jeeps."

 

See the wording "ramps" suggests to me that they where "deployed or dropped", which looking at the photos, the sort of support rail is not very substantial and is curved all the way down at the front, Im going with the thing is plonked against a wall, the LVT reverses out from underneath it and leaves the ramp in place as it flops off the front.

 

 

If you take the word 'them in '...allowing subsequent waves of amtracs to crawl over them...' as referring to the ramps, the two quotes are consistent - though reading the whole thing it sounds as though they mean the LVTs get crawled over. Having said that, it's presumably written much later and second or third hand so could be a misunderstanding of the way they operated. The wording emplaced in the other quote suggests the ramps were put in position by the LVT which then withdrew.

 

Looking at the engineering my vote is for Nickmow's idea; the ramp is dropped and the LVT reverses out from underneath, leaving the ramp on the sea wall or obstacle. From what can be seen in the photos if it's an ark, there seems little point in having the support structure on the vehicle constructed the way it is; there is no way to get up the back of the vehicle or to guarantee that there will not be a gap between the back of the vehicle and the sea wall if it's reversed up; the way the ramp section is mounted means if the vehicle is reversed up either the back end would have to be so far up the sea wall there would be a big gap still to bridge, or some of the beams on the ramp would be unsupported if the ramp was dropped; you wouldn't want to turn 180 degrees and reverse up to an obstacle in the early stage of a beach assault, possibly under heavy fire; the rail-like structure on top of the vehicle doesn't look designed to be driven over or bear much weight, whereas it does look as if it's designed for the wooden beams to slide along and off the LVT; there appears to be exactly enough beams on top of the LVT to deck the empty section of girder either side of it if the ramp is detached; it looks as though there's a release rope or linkage; the ramp girders don't actually look all that well fixed to the support structure on the sides of the LVT, unless there's some welding you can't see in the photo.

 

At about 1:22 in the video above, there's a shot of a more conventional bridge being used the way I'd have thought these things were deployed...

[Willyslancs]

 

www.timemoneyandblood.com/HTML/museums/FairmontPark.html nice ...........

Edited January 9, 2012 by Willyslancs

[Nickmow]

Sorry to resurrect this thread but quite by chance I came across the SeaBees museum page on Facebook. There is a an account of how the Doodlebug was conceived and deployed. It was to provide a ramp up a 14 foot vertical face on one of the beaches. Apparently the LVT2 would beach drive to the escarpment. Deploy the ramp/bridge and back away leaving the ramp in place. Took me a while to remember where this had been discussed but I had to share.