Panzer nut Posted August 14, 2011 Share Posted August 14, 2011 It has been said that you can not identify a uniform by its DPM pattern and colour and that all DPM is temperate and any variation in colour is down to production processes. Firstly I agree and Disagree with this idea. Now You can not identify a uniform by the pattern of the DPM but the colour will give you a 80% chance of Identifying the Pattern of Uniform. Examples below: Example 1 (Above): an easy one for you. Example 2 (Above and below): slightly harder but i have included a close up of the DPM pattern as well Comments and answers please Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Drake Posted August 14, 2011 Share Posted August 14, 2011 I would say that some could, knowing when patterns and colours changed helps I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eaglehurst Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 Early 68 Pattern and later 68 Pattern! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer nut Posted August 15, 2011 Author Share Posted August 15, 2011 Yes to the first one. now why do you think late 68 and not 85 pattern? Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eaglehurst Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 (edited) Yes to the first one. now why do you think late 68 and not 85 pattern? Jon Later 68 can be very diffcult to distinguish from 85...I thought 85 pattern (or whatever it should be referred to ) initially.... Edited August 15, 2011 by Eaglehurst Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer nut Posted August 15, 2011 Author Share Posted August 15, 2011 Yes its an late 68 pattern. nsn 8415 99 132 1822 Size 2 nato 6070/9505 My mate walked out of the tent and I went "I bet thats 8415" and sure enough, also the trousers had the 6 belt loops. Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdbikemad Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 (edited) It's best to have a large collection to hand and to study the garments.......really the only way to gain knowledge..... Colour is a good indication, but not pattern......many of the 60 and 68 pattern DPM garments do not have "dots" in the print........yet some later production does and in a newer material too..... In the mid-1970's the MoD experimented with a new mixed-cotton fabric for the combat suit, as the earlier 100% cotton sateen fabric was considered too heavy in summer and when wet, plus shrank if soaked or washed in a machine..... The new fabric was a mix of either 50/50 cotton-synthetic or 70/30 cotton-synthetic, so when printed with the cammo pattern the fabric produced slightly different colours, feel, etc...... But as with many things, old stocks were used up first, so pure cotton sateen continued in use by some manufacturers through to the early 1980's........ The "68 pattern" suit (smock, trousers, hood & cap) were all subject to this modification around 1977-78.....and with it came a new NSN for the smock and trousers (changing from 8404 to 8415)....but not the cap or hood, which continued to use the original NSN regardless of the fabric from which constructed........and the 68 pattern designation was quietly dropped around this time for the smock and trousers.......it's also worth noting that the DPM cap and hood were not officially introduced until 1972...so not really 68 pattern......mind you, the matching smock and trousers were not introduced until 1971...... So to date the smock and trousers at least...if marked "8405" then it is from 71 to 77-78, and "8415" thereafter until 1984..... DPM aircrew suits, some sniper smocks, and some para smocks continued to use the earlier heavy sateen cloth through to the mid-1980's, the aircrew suit actually continuing to use this material right up to the present......although the DPM print is now much, much darker and more "current" in pattern...... Edited August 15, 2011 by wdbikemad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdbikemad Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 It has been said that you can not identify a uniform by its DPM pattern and colour and that all DPM is temperate and any variation in colour is down to production processes. Firstly I agree and Disagree with this idea. Now You can not identify a uniform by the pattern of the DPM but the colour will give you a 80% chance of Identifying the Pattern of Uniform. Examples below: [ATTACH=CONFIG]49746[/ATTACH] Example 1 (Above): an easy one for you. [ATTACH=CONFIG]49747[/ATTACH] Example 2 (Above and below): slightly harder but i have included a close up of the DPM pattern as well [ATTACH=CONFIG]49748[/ATTACH] Comments and answers please Jon I bet you example 2 garments are "8415" coded...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdbikemad Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 Yes its an late 68 pattern. nsn 8415 99 132 1822 Size 2 nato 6070/9505 My mate walked out of the tent and I went "I bet thats 8415" and sure enough, also the trousers had the 6 belt loops. Jon Very late production "68 pattern" 8415 coded DPM trousers (circa 1982-84) have a revised trouser lining, that is actually sewn-in to the seams instead of the earlier "tab" arrangement......plus, the side (hip) pockets are visible inside the lining......this was done to improve the comfort/weight/drying-out time, etc.......earlier 8415-coded strides (1977-78 to 1982) are as per the 68 pattern in terms of lining.......:-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdbikemad Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 (edited) And for anyone interested, Sabre Sales in Southsea have a fair few NOS Size 5 late-"68 pattern" DPM strides in stock....they are 6 belt-loop type, darker DPM cotton-modal fabric, and new.......and (I think) a very reasonable £15 a pair...... (ps - always ask for Dickie or Bob......they are upstairs in the DPM room in the old flats....!) Edited August 15, 2011 by wdbikemad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer nut Posted August 15, 2011 Author Share Posted August 15, 2011 Colour is a good indication, but not pattern......many of the 60 and 68 pattern DPM garments do not have "dots" in the print........yet some later production does and in a newer material too..... Oh I agree, I have learnt that one over time. Colour is a good one but as you say not the pattern, we explored in depth on the old c20 forum about colours and even button colour and design in such a manner there were complaints that we were overwhelming the forum...lol I think we were upto page 20 before it went all tits up. Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevpol Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 Oh I agree, I have learnt that one over time. Colour is a good one but as you say not the pattern, we explored in depth on the old c20 forum about colours and even button colour and design in such a manner there were complaints that we were overwhelming the forum...lol I think we were upto page 20 before it went all tits up. Jon yep, got quite intense at times!!!! Good fun though!!! Miss that forum Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eaglehurst Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 And for anyone interested, Sabre Sales in Southsea have a fair few NOS Size 5 late-"68 pattern" DPM strides in stock....they are 6 belt-loop type, darker DPM cotton-modal fabric, and new.......and (I think) a very reasonable £15 a pair...... (ps - always ask for Dickie or Bob......they are upstairs in the DPM room in the old flats....!) I really need to get down there at some point! My fear is that I would be there for a week and served divorce papers when I returned!!:-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer nut Posted August 16, 2011 Author Share Posted August 16, 2011 It is an eye opener, mind you make sure you have had all your shots first especialy against flea bites. Carry plenty off food and water, dont put anything down especialy personal items as you will never find them again (I lost my lemmings cap in there), carry a mobile phone and make sure yo have a red rope tied to your waist and then to a secure point out side the building so that some one can pull you out if you get into difficulty. Just shouting help when a pile of clothing falls on you wont cut it. LOL Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5645andym Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 I went (for the first time ever) on Tuesday and the NOS late 68 Ptn trousers were still there, at least 20 pairs in size 5 and size 7. None in my size but as a consolation prize I found a pair of NOS early windproof trousers, in the 'pale' DPM, with the two cross over integral waist fastening belts. Only £15.00 NO I WILL NOT CONSIDER SELLING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eaglehurst Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 I went (for the first time ever) on Tuesday and the NOS late 68 Ptn trousers were still there, at least 20 pairs in size 5 and size 7. None in my size but as a consolation prize I found a pair of NOS early windproof trousers, in the 'pale' DPM, with the two cross over integral waist fastening belts. Only £15.00 NO I WILL NOT CONSIDER SELLING I thought Steve (wdbikemad) had cleared them out of this sort of gear....maybe I should get down there! What size were they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdbikemad Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 I thought Steve (wdbikemad) had cleared them out of this sort of gear....maybe I should get down there! What size were they? Damn !!! Missed those !!! Mind you, there's such a ton of stuff there you always find something new that was overlooked before...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer nut Posted September 3, 2011 Author Share Posted September 3, 2011 I beleive the UN have set up camps on the second floor for those that can't find there way out. Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RattlesnakeBob Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 A few years ago I bought a cracking jacket which looks like bang on the same as the one in the first photo from Nettley Marsh Motorcycle/Auto Jumble which I paid £5.00 quid for... ..the chap had at least 100 of them all the same price...pick through til you found one that fitted. They'd all been repaired at some point in their life but all very well done...mine has about a 12" of obviously newer material stitched into the middle of the back and a couple of very well done patches on the sleeves about 2" square.... .It's an absolutely great jacket and still worn more or less every other day.....the badge stitched inside the shoulder in the centre is very faded and says: Size 2 NATO Size 6070/9500 (or 9509?) then there's summat else that I can't read cos its so faded.... ...Button cuffs not velcro and it's got a 'bum flap' thing, draw string through the bottom hem and through the waist.........and the top pockets are on a slight 'angle' to the jacket.... so..........................whats mine then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer nut Posted September 3, 2011 Author Share Posted September 3, 2011 Instant thought is a '68 pattern but then you think that may be thhis is a trick question...Got a Picture? Questions: Is it double lined with an olive material? Are the pockets closed with buttons or press studs? Is it a stiched colar? Obvious question is it in DPM? Do you know the NSN? Ta Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RattlesnakeBob Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 (edited) Instant thought is a '68 pattern but then you think that may be thhis is a trick question...Got a Picture? Questions: Is it double lined with an olive material? Are the pockets closed with buttons or press studs? Is it a stiched colar? Obvious question is it in DPM? Do you know the NSN? Ta Jon hehehehno not a trick question !....I'd just like to know what it is to answer: yep.... its double lined and the colour is I guess more or about olive green maybe a bit lighter a shade of green ???....all pockets are closed by buttons...and the collar is a separate piece stitched on..and yeah its what I'd call proper streaky messy green /black/ muddy brown / kharki camo colour!...also its got an inside pocket on the left as yer wearing it.... It's super warm but does, as someone said above, get very heavy when wet.. and please excuse me but ...whats 'the NSN'? Edited September 4, 2011 by RattlesnakeBob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eaglehurst Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 hehehehno not a trick question !....I'd just like to know what it is to answer: yep.... its double lined and the colour is I guess more or about olive green maybe a bit lighter a shade of green ???....all pockets are closed by buttons...and the collar is a separate piece stitched on..and yeah its what I'd call proper streaky messy green /black/ muddy brown / kharki camo colour!...also its got an inside pocket on the left as yer wearing it.... It's super warm but does, as someone said above, get very heavy when wet.. and please excuse me but ...whats 'the NSN'? If the label is still legible it will be the 4-2-3-4 digit number - something like 8405 99 132 1823. Does the collar have several parallel lines of stiching running through it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RattlesnakeBob Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 If the label is still legible it will be the 4-2-3-4 digit number - something like 8405 99 132 1823. Does the collar have several parallel lines of stiching running through it? the badge is very faded and all I can make out is what I put above sorry! and no, the collar does not have horizontal stitche through it.. any ideas? many thanks anyways! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eaglehurst Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Sounds like a 68 pattern smock.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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