VCR Bill Update

[Kfz70]

I received the following email from Dr Philipp Elliot-Wright today:

 

On Tuesday 26th September I attended a meeting at the Home Office in regard to the elements of the forthcoming Violent Crime Reduction Bill associated with the sale of deactivated and blank firing weapons. It will be recalled that in its original form it threatened to effectively ban all, including legitimate re-enactors, from purchasing, importing or manufacturing (ownership was not affected), any deactivated or blank firing weapons, alongside restrictions on the sale of primers.

 

The original clauses and definitions have now been significantly amended as a result of representations made to the Home Office to provide safeguards for re-enactors that ought to enable them to still obtain blank firing and deactivated items and an actual legal definition of re-enactment.

 

The crucial element is Clause 35. Clause 34 creates various offences related to the sale, transfer, manufacture and/or import “realistic imitation firearms”. However, Clause 35 creates various defences to Clause 34 offences. Within this there are crucial safeguards for re-enactors that shall permit them to still obtain both blank firing and deactivated items for the purpose of re-enactment.

 

Firstly, Clause 35 (1) reads “It shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under section 34 in respect of any conduct to show that the conduct was for the purpose only of making the imitation firearm in question available for one or more of the purposes specified in subsection (2)”

 

Secondly, Clause 35 (2) (e) states that one of these purposes is “the organisation and holding of historical re-enactments organised and held by persons specified or described for the purpose of this section by regulations made by the Secretary of State”

 

Thirdly, Clause 35 (7) states that for the purpose of this section “historical re-enactment means any presentation or other event held for the purpose of re-enacting an event from the past or of illustrating conduct from a particular time or period in the past”

 

It has also been agreed that the Secretary of State ((Home Office) will henceforth recognise any group, regardless of size (i.e. one person and up), in respect of Clause 35 (7) “historical re-enactment…” provided it has third party public liability insurance in the name of the “society”. Thus history is being made. At last re-enactors will be recognised in law as a specific legal activity with a workable definition. In essence, taking Clause 35 (7) as the baseline, Whatever the “historic” activity being “illustrated”, from whatever period (the Home Office accepts that the “past” is anything from yesterday backwards, so ALL historic periods are covered, ancient, medieval, early modern and modern, right up to this moment in time). Equally, whether a society/group is one man/woman or 6,000, all it needs to do is fit Clause 35 (7) and carry third Party Public Liability insurance in its name. As it is an offence to put on any form of “public” display (even if private and on private land) without such insurance, all re-enactment groups will automatically fulfil this definition.

 

Philipp Elliot-Wright

 

Thus the definition of a re-enactment is defined.

 

 

[ghasp!]

Good news!

[Larry Hayward]

Good News in deed!

 

Though when I read all the pages and pages of waffle detailing each offence and exemptions under the Act I still think that it won't make one bit of difference to your average mugger in SE London! It makes me sick, as I know post April 2007 a MV enthusiast somewhere in the UK is going to end up with a conviction and a bigger sentence than someone who is a persistant robber. Too bad if Mr Law-abiding is sacked from his job for 'firearms offences'!

 

The current Government have now passed over 40 'Law & Order' Bills none of which have helped, and as one person said at the start of our debate over the issue, it always has been an offence under existing laws to use an immitation firearm in a threatening manner or convince a victim it was real. What a waste of Parliamentry time

[Snapper]

Forgive me for being ignorant - but where does this leave me and my old Iltis with my G3 and my Uzi airsofts? I appreciate I am a master criminal of the Blofeld sort - I even own cats, so I am assuming I can no longer carry them. Does this mean I need to join/form a Bundeswehr re-enactment group to save me from ruin? I don't do re-enacting. Maybe a few disparate (and in these circumstances; desperate) groups of odds and sods need to come together???? The Rag-tag army. Way to go!

[ArtistsRifles]

<snipped for brevity>

The current Government have now passed over 40 'Law & Order' Bills none of which have helped, and as one person said at the start of our debate over the issue, it always has been an offence under existing laws to use an immitation firearm in a threatening manner or convince a victim it was real. What a waste of Parliamentry time

 

 

Indeeed - all they've managed to do is assure the criminal scum who do use firearms that they are guaranteed not be be shot at by innocent citizens defending life and property in any way shape or form!!!

 

I'm just waiting for the morons attempting to ruin this country to ban longbows!!

[fv1609]

It's perfectly simple, there is no gun crime any more involving hand guns because possesing them legally has been banned :dunno:

[Larry Hayward]

In answer to the above post by Snapper, I must say that I find the whole lot a great big muddle and every time I read it I think OK that's and offence, yes that too - then I read a bit more and it gives exemptions to this and that!

 

Anyway after reading it about a hundred times, the way I read it is that from April 2007 it will be illegal to sell or a replica or make your own 'replica weapon' or modify something to make it look more realistic - unless you belong to a Re-enactment Group with Public Liability Insurance in which case you can sell or buy a replica or make your own 'replica weapon' and buy parts for it and obtain blank ammo.

 

It seems that there is nothing in the Bill to prevent you from owning a deact, replica or airsoft if you have one already, as there is no requirement to hand them in - but keeping a receipt of when and where you bought it might be a good idea!

 

I think we will all need to think about the way we take these things to shows and also what to do with them if our vehicle breaks down on the way. You cannot exactly leave them unattended when you walk off down the road to get help - nor can you start carrying them like 'Rambo' to save them being nicked off the vehicle! " Hello Officer I'd like to report that a man dressed in camouflage, is walking down the High Street with a couple of machine guns over his shoulder!" That a sure way to get shot by the Police. So perhaps store then in a long kit bag or even ones used for fishing rods

 

I think the ban on the import of these things will reduce your chances of taking deacts and replicas across the Channel as Customs are going to be all over your vehicles hunting for something you might of bought 'over there'.

 

I could not see a direct reference to airsoft in the VCR Bill but to the ordinary man in the street or the Police these are the same as replicas so we will have to be careful.

 

 

[Marmite!!]

Deacs are not part of the VCR Bill & have been left out.. The firearms section of the VCR Bill deals with realistic replicas..

[Larry Hayward]

So is an airsoft SA80 a realistic replica?

[Marmite!!]

So is an airsoft SA80 a realistic replica?

 

 

Yes.. if it looks like the real thing without close inspection..

 

(2) For the purposes of this section, an imitation firearm is not (except by virtue of

subsection (3)(b)) to be regarded as distinguishable from a real firearm for any

practical purpose if it could be so distinguished only—

(a) by an expert;

(b) on a close examination; or

© as a result of an attempt to load or to fire it.

(3) In determining for the purposes of this section whether an imitation firearm is

distinguishable from a real firearm—

(a) the matters that must be taken into account include any differences

between the size, shape and principal colour of the imitation firearm

and the size, shape and colour in which the real firearm is

manufactured; and

(b) the imitation is to be regarded as distinguishable if its size, shape or

principal colour is unrealistic for a real firearm.

(4) The Secretary of State may by regulations provide that, for the purposes of

subsection (3)(b)—

(a) the size of an imitation firearm is to be regarded as unrealistic for a real

firearm only if the imitation firearm has dimensions that are less than

the dimensions specified in the regulations; and

(b) a colour is to be regarded as unrealistic for a real firearm only if it is a

colour specified in the regulations.

[Snapper]

So, will the market for these things go potty whereby the prices rocket up or down????? Interesting. I expect it would be the former while the dealers seek to make money before their stock is "worthless". But I would imagine they would have been prepared for this and have found foreign takers for bulk stock. Will this also affect the deacts market - because those cheaper options you once had will soon be gone. Good call on the SA80 - for some reason I've always fancied one - but it was an M14 I was really hankering for. A whim, but a good one. I bought my G3 because deacts are that much more expensive and, as mentioned, my mrs is emphatically anti-gun. My son James and I sneaked the airsofts in under her radar. Nice to know we can keep them, though.

[Chappers]

Can someone please tell me what the F :schocked: K all this bunch of baloney is all about.

I don't understand the difference between an imitation firearm and a realistic imitation

firearm; :? :?

Is a Black and Becker "PISTOL" drill classed as an imitation firearm,by definition its a pistol Drill???Does a plastic construction kit (Airfix) of a pistol constitute a realistic firearm once it's put together??

 

The whole thing about this VCR bill is Bull.

I use a nail gun at work which fires 90mm nails and would kill instantly if used in the wrong manner but these are O.K????

 

 

I have a picture of the solicitor General for the Government on a public road holding my Thompson machine gun with an M1 helmet on in front of a T55 flying the Israeli flag,taken a month ago.

I've got my get out of Jail card how about you :tongue: :tongue: :tongue:

 

 

 

36 Manufacture, import and sale of realistic imitation firearms

(1) A person is guilty of an offence if—

(a) he manufactures a realistic imitation firearm;

(b) he modifies an imitation firearm so that it becomes a realistic imitation

firearm;????????????????????????????

© he sells a realistic imitation firearm; or

(d) he brings a realistic imitation firearm into Great Britain or causes one to

be brought into Great Britain.

[Mark]

You have just got to post THAT picture

[Chappers]

You have just got to post THAT picture

 

 

It's priceless :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: Check out the MP http://www.lslo.gov.uk/obrien.htm

Here's the one I've edited to remove the flag as this could be used as a political statement.

http://img331.imageshack.us/img331/3627/dsc00349fve8.jpg[/img]