Jessie The Jeep Posted October 1, 2006 Share Posted October 1, 2006 I've just started watching 'The Longest Day', and about 10 minutes into the film, you see a jeep drive into shot. I'm sure it's a Hotchkiss M201 or ITM Jeep, but still in its post war French Army scheme, just with a star on the hood. I'm recording the film so will check back once it is finished. The jeep grill has the diagonal while/green finish, there is the white 'flaming granade' on the side from the 1950's/60's, and the French Tricolour just to the right of the left bumperette. Towards the end of the film, another M201 is seen, with metal loop screen rests & electric wipers powered by a single central motor. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jessie The Jeep Posted October 1, 2006 Author Share Posted October 1, 2006 I also spotted they were using Douglas Skyraiders as escort fighters for the convoy. In actual fact, the only allied fighters allowed over the beaches were the Lockheed P-38 Lightning because of its distinctive twin boom shape. This was chosen as it was easy for allied troops to identify from any Luftwaffe fighters. Also, any allied aircraft over the beaches was only allowed to turn left. Anything that made a right turn was to be regarded as hostile, and a target. As it turned out, only two Luftwaffe Fw190 fighters flew over the beaches on D Day, largely as a result of the 8th Air Force raids on German oil supplies and the Thunderbolt escort fighters mauling the Luftwaffe in the air and on the ground after bomber escort missions. At the end of the war, it was estimated that the Germans only had around 7000 gallons of aviation fuel left, and fighters were being towed from dispersals to their runways behind oxen to save fuel. After the war, fighter kill figures were re-analysed, and the two top scoring Fighter Groups ( 4th and 56th ) had between 900 and 1000 air and ground kills each. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted October 1, 2006 Share Posted October 1, 2006 Steve, weren't Spits used as spotters for the naval guns? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jessie The Jeep Posted October 1, 2006 Author Share Posted October 1, 2006 I can't remember which of my books the information came from, I'll have to try and find it now ( most likely one of the Roger Freeman books ). Perhaps it refered to only refered to US aircraft, or those flown only as top cover for the beaches, and not refering to all fighter aircraft flown, as there was certainly other fighter/ground attack action on D-Day. Back to the film, there's a scene with a tank with what appears to be a folded down canvas surround like the swimming DD Shermans. While it wasn't on screen long, I'm fairly sure it isn't a Sherman, so does anyone know what it was? Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 Steve, weren't Spits used as spotters for the naval guns? Jack, Jack, dont forget that in books and films only the Americans won the war, and if they had their way the Brits were'nt there :-o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joris Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 If they ever do a remake of A Bridge to Far it will probably only feature Americans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jessie The Jeep Posted October 2, 2006 Author Share Posted October 2, 2006 By the way, the books I was refering too were actually written by an Englishman! Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War truck Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 I think that we should all club together and remake flags of our Fathers to show a bunch of British soldiers raising the Union Jack over Mt Surabachi in Iwo Jima. Maybe someone would take notice of that! Tim (too) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtistsRifles Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 The nation of America would have collective apoplexy at that. It would be on a par with making a film that said the Fleet Air Arm actually won the botle for Midway!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jessie The Jeep Posted October 2, 2006 Author Share Posted October 2, 2006 Back on topic please chaps - The Longest Day film Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 I think that we should all club together and remake flags of our Fathers to show a bunch of British soldiers raising the Union Jack over Mt Surabachi in Iwo Jima. Maybe someone would take notice of that! Tim (too) Now I like the sound of that..or why don't we ask the BBC to spend 53 million on a Roman invasion series..........silly me, they done that last year, that work well for them then :? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 Is this proof that the M201 was used during D-Day and was not just delivered ashore in the back of a GMC which was also towing a Dodge at the same time :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rlangham Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 As for the tank which didn't look like a Sherman - could it have been a 76mm Sherman? Haven't seen the film for a while but remember seeing a photo of the filming at a museum in Ouiestreham (sp?) showing a 76mm Sherman with canvas screens down. Also, was the film in colour as well? The last time I saw it it was in black and white, but I could swear i've seen it at least twice in colour..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jessie The Jeep Posted October 2, 2006 Author Share Posted October 2, 2006 The film was black and white. The far off shot was only brief, but immediately struck me as not being a Sherman. There was then a close up turret shot which appeared to be much too angular for a Sherman. I'll see if I can get a screen capture of it to post. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Degsy Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 I've got it on DVD in B&W. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jessie The Jeep Posted October 3, 2006 Author Share Posted October 3, 2006 I got the pics now. At a second look, the tank does look more like a Sherman in the distance shot. I only got a brief view when first watching the film, but a freeze frame makes things much clearer. http://www.pix8.net/pro/pic/18574IOCU8/959041.jpg[/img] The second picture is the turret, but I'm not familiar with this angular turret shape on the Sherman. Is this the 76mm Sherman mentioned a couple of posts ago? http://www.pix8.net/pro/pic/18574IOCU8/959042.jpg[/img] Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Degsy Posted October 3, 2006 Share Posted October 3, 2006 Hi Steve. Yes , it appears to be the 76mm gun Sherman with the larger turret and HVSS suspension. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rlangham Posted October 3, 2006 Share Posted October 3, 2006 Yep it's the 76mm - as far as I know none were used by the British except for a few towards the end of the war, and certainly weren't used at DD tanks (there's no way the gun would go high enough to clear the canvas screen) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlienFTM Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 Back to the film, there's a scene with a tank with what appears to be a folded down canvas surround like the swimming DD Shermans. While it wasn't on screen long, I'm fairly sure it isn't a Sherman, so does anyone know what it was? Steve Many years ago I missed The Longest Day on TV because my aunt and uncle were holding a Silver Wedding celebration and I was dragged along. Up in God's Country at the weekend for a school reunion, I stayed over at my now-widowed aunt's. I walked into the room and found The Longest Day, reminded her that I had missed this film because of her and in fact had never sat and watched it through (technically I still haven't because I missed the first 5 minutes. I tried not to share too many bloopers with her, because she really didn't care, but when I saw a number of DD Shermans go by, couldn't help myself. They were Shermans, but they were M4A3E8s with the long 76mm gun, so long that you wouldn't have been able to raise the flotation screens fully. I couldn't give you an exhaustive list of the Sherman models converted or built as DDs, but the the M4A3E2 which introduced the revised hull shape seen on the M4A3E8 did not appear until nearly two months after D-Day. I suppose on reflection, the producer had made a best effort and I let it go. But since you ask ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlienFTM Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 I have looked at the supplied screenshots and now I AM surprised. The turret is that of the Easy 8 (as I'd identified the tank from memory in my previous post), but the suspension in the picture is clearly the archetypal Vertical Volute Spring Suspension, not the then new Horizontal VSS of the M4A3 "Easy 8" (and the "Easy 2" I mentioned), which in my book means that the tank in the picture is in fact a hybrid Sherman (but it appears to me still to be all Sherman). Maybe the hull is actually an original DD hull then. Though I find this hard to believe as I was under the impression that the float screens tended to be ditched by their crews as soon as convenient. FWIW, hats off to the DD crews who floated off landing ships off the coast. I swam a Scorpion a few yards in a tank at Ludgershall in 1977 and it was no fun. The only wave was that given off by our own forward motion - not a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snapper Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 The Longest Day was filmed entirely in black and white to take advantage of newsreel, but to confuse matters, all the publicity stuff was in colour. I did not see the film first time in 1963, but it was re-released with some fanfare in around 1969-70 and was shown for weeks at the Dominion Cinema in Tottenham Court Road( just off Oxford St for the non Londoners). There was a huge billboard for it at Finsbury Park in nth London to catch the attention of the expresses leaving Kings Cross. It was from the perspective of two helmeted German machine gunners looking down on the beach (presumably Omaha). I have wished for years that I had been old enough to snap it - but I was ten years old. There used to be a train-spotters stand there to watch the Deltics - but it was a haven of muggers and nonces even in those days). My parents took me to see the film at the Dominion - it was a highlight of my young life. In those days the big films had official programmes and I still have mine. All the stills are in full colour and look brilliant. I did not visit Normandy until 1975. We had one day in Arromanches being shouted at in the museum. I was the only kid interested in any of it and had to give our teachers history lessons. The rest of the time we visited sewage farms and gymnasiums (a twin town nightmare). I went back in 2003 and finally got to see Pegasus bridge and the church in St Mere Eglise for myself. My family and friends were with me - it was one of the happiest weeks of my life. The filmed battle of Oiustreham actually took place in Port-en-Bessin and included the film makers altering the famous Bazaar shop sign (a picture of Monty there is in ATB Normandy Then and now vol 2) to say Ouistreham which can still be seen today. I presume the Sherman was French army reserve stock... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Degsy Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 Watched it yesterday on DVD and noticed what appears to be a Polsten quad being used by German troops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlienFTM Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 The filmed battle of Oiustreham actually took place in Port-en-Bessin I spent a few summer holidays in the 1990s visiting Normandy. I remember driving around a dock on the coast in a town behind one of the central beaches, having to take two rather long sides and a short side around the dock, quite a distance to cover a few yards along the beach. I watched the film and I KNEW there was something about the famous "Ouistreham" scene that didn't ring true. Thanks for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snapper Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 I only nicked the info. In ATB they show how the film makers were allowed to wreck the place because some big redevelopments were in hand. I think the way this scene is filmed is the best in the movie, the tracking shot when the commandos break out to attack is fantastic. And not a word of it is mentioned by Cornelius Ryan. It was obviously a political decision to include French valour, but then why not? Kieffer and his men deserved it. If anyone does go to Port en Bessin, there is a fantastic patisserie by the harbour bit that does the most brilliant cakes and tarts - we ate ours in the rain sitting in the boot of our cars at Omaha. Happy days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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