Starting a Sherman Tank

[jpg1982]

I have been given the challenge of getting the works israeli sherman tank running. It was last started around 2 years ago and the guys that used to operate it are no longer here.

 

I need to know basically how to start it and operate the gears. There appears to be no clear markings on any of the controls, so i am finding it a a little bit difficult to work out whats what.

 

The cummins diesel has been replaced by a volvo unit but all the controls and instruments are or appear to be original. Am i right in thinking that the left pedal is for the clutch? and the right pedal is the brake? Im guessing that the gear lever is at the right hand side of the seat? How many positions does it have and where is neutral as it only goes forwards and backwards?

 

The other tiny problem im having is working out how to actualy start it:nut: the main console to the left in front of the battery box has an on off switch to the right at the bottom of the panel, there is also a push button switch at the bottom in the centre, these dont appear to do anything when opperated. In line with the brake pedal, about 2ft above, there is a fuel pressure guage with a flick switch next to it, if i flick the switch a light comes on and i can here the solanoids next to the kill switches energize. There is also a black push button switch, that when pressed stays down, to release it you have to turn the outer part anti clockwise. Again none of these switches appear to do anything so i am either missing something or i have a serious electrical fault as i can not see any other controls.

 

I hope someone can help me before i completely loose it:nut: sorry for the long post, but i am completely stuck having never worked on anything like this in the past.

 

I look forward to your replies, thank you in advance.

 

Jason

Edited October 22, 2010 by jpg1982

[Maurice]

Hi , first of all you have no brake pedal in your Sherman , right one is accell.pedal , left is clutch , your 2 sticks are the brakes .

Master switch box as you explained is only for that , the button is a fuse .

Gear lever , if you can move it sideways , that is neutral , push buttun on top in , and then to the left forward is 1st, to the left back is reverse .

because of engine transplant it looks to me that there must be a switch on the dash board to start it . what dash is in ?

otherwise send some pictures , then we can see what is moddified.

[steveo578]

A sherman has 2 battery master swiches on the left near the hull wall behind the drivers seat the nearest to the driver is the main switch the othe should run radios etc

 

The only mod. of the instrument panel I can think of is the engine crancking and magneto switches bottom right were replaced by a single switch,- probably as a starter switch.

 

 

There is also a lock parking brake lever close to the streering levers.

[jpg1982]

Thanks for the replies. The photo posted above looks to be of the same layout as our sherman. I will take some photos of the interior next week and post them onto here. I just cant wait to get it started and take it for a drive, you dont get many chances of seeing vehicles like this let alone drive them. So i intend on making the most of it, before it gets sold of with the rest of our now unused military vehicles :cry:

[jpg1982]

Im slowly making progress:D Ive not managed to start it yet, but i have discovered that the starter motor has seized due to a lack of use. The engine bay is certainly very cosy, i spent a couple of hours in there today checking everything over. The engine turns over nicely by hand, so hopefully once i have repaired the starter i will be able to get it fired up and running again.

 

I had some assistance from two retired tank mechanics, who have spent every wednesday for the last 6 years restoring our centurion avre 165:shocked::nut:.

 

Next week (fingers crossed) i will get it out of the shed and into the main workshop, i will try and get some photos or video taken and get it posted on here.

 

Jason

[Joris]

Blimey, don't they come with a manual these days?

 

Brilliant stuff, having a tank but not a clue how to start it. I'm so jealous!

[private mw]

keep us updated on your progress ,:-)

[ArtistsRifles]

Blimey, don't they come with a manual these days?

 

Brilliant stuff, having a tank but not a clue how to start it. I'm so jealous!

 

If you got dropped in the OT withut a crib sheet you'd have the same problem Joris! Fortunately the major controls are all labelled in mine

[jpg1982]

Its alive:yay::dancinggirls::banana: Had the starter motor rebuilt, by a local firm, got it refitted today and after a few checks she was up and running within an hour. We then drove her over a mile from one side of our site into our main workshop, where she will be getting some more attention over the coming weeks to get her in tip top shape ready for sale:-(

 

Thanks you all, for your help and advice, i am sure i will be after some more in the next few weeks.

 

Jason

[private mw]

pics please :-)

[jpg1982]

Heres a couple of shots i took with my phone, unfortunately the light was fading and we were in a hurry to get it moved so they are not brilliant. Will take some better ones soon.

 

 

 

 

 

[private mw]

looks great thanks for sharing , :-)

[steveo578]

yes interesting looking tank odd colour scheme and markings though:cool2:

[ajmac]

I'm sure the answer is quite obvious, but what did this Sherman start life as?

I can see it wasn't an M4A4, so was it an M4? I can't see the back which would have given the best clue....

[steveo578]

Chances are it was an M4A3(w)75 or a M4 or M4A3 105(w) but it doesn't follow that the HVSS is original and the tank could have been originally fitted with VVSS. The turret may give its origins away on examination for example if there is the remenants of a rear roof ventilator it wil be a 105mm gun type -but turrets and hulls were not kept together during rebuilds so a M50 could be fitted with the turret originally fitted to a M4A4 -even though the hull is a late 75mm model.

[Adrian Barrell]

The rear of the tank was the area that had the most mods! Without a closer examination it is, as Steve points out difficult to be sure.

[ajmac]

So, did they change the engine inspection doors? If it were an M4 I'd expect the two swing out doors and the small access hatch for the M4A3, and the blanked or / utilised exhaust holes through the plate either side of the door.

[Adrian Barrell]

So, did they change the engine inspection doors?

 

Yes, they did. The whole lower rear plate was chopped about.

[steveo578]

Back plates of Israeli Sherman

An M50 having lost one of its doors- note the circular blanking off plate.

 

 

An Israeli modified Cummings 460 M32 ARV note how this one although with nominally the same configuration as the M50 has an exhaust pipe fitted:confused: Probably others too -just can't find the other photos.:-(

 

 

As a comparision a Standard M4A1

 

 

and a Sherman V (M4A4)

 

 

The reason I thought the M50 it is probably made from an M4,M4A3 105 or M4A3 75(w) hull is the lack of applique on the hull which precludes M4A2 75 with 47° glacis although it still could be a hull off a M4A2 76(W) or a M4A3 76(W) the Israelis spread their net far and wideand certainly had M4A3 76(W) supplied along with M4A1 76(W) by the French -the M4A3 76(W) were peculiar in that they had Radial engine so would be by default an M4 76(W) a type which was scheduled for production in 1944 but dropped.

Edited November 12, 2010 by steveo578
spelling

[jpg1982]

I will take some photos of the sherman next week when i get it out for a clean. The engine bay is accesed via two doors on the back and it also has a removable hatch on top. It has 3 fuel tanks, one either side of the engine bay and also one inside the engine bay.

Are there any markings on any of the castings that may help id the tank? I know very little about this vehicle other than it is supposed to be a israeli super sherman m51.

 

Thanks for all of your help i will try and keep you posted on any work carried out. Once this one is sorted i will then need to start on the FV433 Abbot:-D

 

Jason

[steveo578]

jpg1982

 

 

Are there any markings on any of the castings that may help id the tank? I know very little about this vehicle other than it is supposed to be a israeli super sherman m51.

 

 

 

 

The casting marks on Shermans tend to be specific to the casting manufacturer and the Standard Numerical List of parts -it would not help in IDing an Israeli Sherman as they were often rebuilt from any components they had available. Some Sherman had a manufacturers (USA) serial number stamped into the tow horns -but again not of much use -it might tell you the ID of a particular tank hull but considering by then the turret, transmission and motor probably came from another tank it is a moot point.

 

Israeli tanks had a number begining with the Hebrew letter צ followed by a number -sometimes this was welded onto the glacis -but it was often ground off when the tank was sold by the military (it might be possible to find the original tank numbers or even acid etch the welded number sufficient to read it). There is also a number preceeded with letters צר which denotes an item ordnance -so may be on the external gun barrel, mantlet or gun turret in some tanks. Be aware Hebrew is writen from right to left. although the number is denoted left to right so the letter(s) actually look like a suffix.

 

As to the type of the tank it is an M50 -a 75mm gun tank sometimes called M50 Isherman -rarely called and IMO inaccurately called a Super Sherman.

 

 

Israeli designations -which can be confusing are

 

 

 

 

M1 -this is any M4 sherman irrespective of type armed with the original 75mm M3 gun and also the 105mm howitzer type (said it was confusing:nut:)

 

 

 

 

M1 is also the designation given to the M4A1(76) and M4A1(76) HVSS first used during the 1956 war by the Israelis the name Super Sherman was used at this time and was most probably a term used by the French for the 76mm gun versions.

 

 

 

 

M1 covers any tank nominally of original configuration -although most israeli M1 had radial engines irrespective of original type for example M4A4 Sherman V were radial engined -probably because most were French rebuilds.

 

 

 

 

M50 Isherman -(Israeli Sherman) -your tank, comes in numerous versions (try using the forum search for M50- I've put up some photos of the various types fairly recently)

 

 

 

 

M51 Isherman fitted with a shortened version of the French 105mm F1 as fitted to an AMX30 tank- thes are mostly ex M4A1(76) tanks although several were built on M4A3(76) tanks.

 

 

 

 

Steve

 

 

[jpg1982]

I managed to get a photo of the rear doors on the sherman, it is certainly different from the photos of the other israeli shermans i have seen. I am unsure as to if this is an israeli modification or if it was done to fit the volvo engine, but the floor in the engine bay sits much lower than the rest of the tank.

 

 

The tank is now running absolutely great, i have driven her evey other day for the last week and it starts on the button every time. I need to adjust the throttle cable and the brakes need a bit of work as its a bit of a work out getting it to turn at the moment.

 

I think when it comes to it i will be sad to see her go:-(

 

Jason

[steveo578]

I think it will have been the same as photo 1 on my Post No#19 the bit under the doors would have been a liablity on an in service tank -reducing the ground clearnace so is possibly something to do with the Volvo conversion- I certainly never seen it on a M1-M50 or M51 or its derivatives.

 

Steve

[Adrian Barrell]

I need to adjust the throttle cable and the brakes need a bit of work as its a bit of a work out getting it to turn at the moment.

 

Jason

 

It is worth checking to see what oil has been put in the transmission. It should be straight 50 engine oil but people are often determined to put EP transmission oils in and then are surprised when it is a bugger to steer!

 

It should be relatively easy to steer, correct adjustment is important though. You have double pull brakes fitted which are the better design. I can give you the correct adjusting procedure if you need it.

[jpg1982]

Hi Adrian

any information on how to adjust the brakes would be very much appreciated. I am just in the process of trying to sort out the accelerator at the moment. There is a small amount of movement in the peddle, but this does not rev the engine at all. I am assuming either something has disconected or has seized.

It is certainly not fun working on these vehicles in the winter, it is like an ice box inside:laugh: everything is cold to touch and really hard to get at.

 

Thanks Jason