question Jeep wheels

[Willyslancs]

If the holes in Jeep wheels have gone too big over the years(the metal that the wheel nut touches) ,can they be repaired or best to bin?....

Edited September 14, 2010 by Willyslancs

[Stormin]

You could build up the worn area with weld, re-drill and countersink. Mate of mine has just done same on some Fergie wheels. Best to make a jig to replicate the hub and stud positions to ensure accuracy though.

[N.O.S.]

OK I'll be the Devil's advocate here -

 

With tractors, plant and slow moving vehicles it is common practice to repair and even adapt new wheels by cutting out and repairing or welding in new discs.

 

But would you do this on a car wheel? Mmmm.

 

I'd be inclined to regard a jeep wheel as more like a car wheel - quality steel to give strength with a very thin section. If repaired this could compromise strength with unknown consequences.

[Stormin]

OK I'll be the Devil's advocate here -

 

With tractors, plant and slow moving vehicles it is common practice to repair and even adapt new wheels by cutting out and repairing or welding in new discs.

 

But would you do this on a car wheel? Mmmm.

 

I'd be inclined to regard a jeep wheel as more like a car wheel - quality steel to give strength with a very thin section. If repaired this could compromise strength with unknown consequences.

 

Got to admit that being as it's a jeep wheel and there probably two a penny I wouldn't bother myself and buy a new one. 19" Fergie wheels are a getting a bit rare now and worth repairing.

[Willyslancs]

if they are two a penny , put me down for 3p s worth mate .......

[Stormin]

if they are two a penny , put me down for 3p s worth mate .......

 

Are they not readily available from the Jeep specialists like Dallas autos or similar then? Or is it as is so often the case of re-production parts not upto desired quality?

 

I don't think getting them repaired by a fabricator / machine shop would be particularly cheap. Probably only worthwhile if it's done with your own time and effort rather than paying for someone else's.

[Wolfy]

New repro combat wheels are £100 - £120 each but I prefer the original ones.

 

I've been buying original ones one at a time but must admit havent thought about the holes wearing...must check.:nut:

[Stormin]

New repro combat wheels are £100 - £120 each but I prefer the original ones.

 

I've been buying original ones one at a time but must admit havent thought about the holes wearing...must check.:nut:

 

Shouldn't really be a problem unless they've been run loose and rubbing on the studs. I'd have said a more likely form of damage is buckling of the rim or centre disc from off road activity.

[Blackpowder44]

One of my jeep wheels stud holes were badly worn and i bought some oversize wheel nuts from Tony Sudds. They worked a treat. John.

[Willyslancs]

One of my jeep wheels stud holes were badly worn and i bought some oversize wheel nuts from Tony Sudds. They worked a treat. John.

Cheers mate........

[KMF]

Wel, i am no jeep expert but,,, a jeep wheel just like any other car must be in ballance or it will shake you to death. When you weld something it efects the metal at an atomic leavel afecting the structure and properties of the steel, to do the job propily you would fitstly have to overcome the acurate machineing process to get it perfectly corect, then it would need to be anealed to releive any stresses caused by the heat put on the heat efected zone surrounding the welds, or just buy some repos, or maybe just grab some off that cheep jeep in lytham hehehe

[Willyslancs]

:nut:

[deadline]

Weld them up and drill/countersink them.

 

A jeep rim will never see more than 45-50mph. Hardly fast enough to need any balance weight whatsoever.

 

A modern wheel of aluminum or alloy doing 60+ MPH, yes. A stamped steel combat wheel with split rims, bolts, and a huge NDT tire???? Forget out all that mico-balance heat stress jibba-jabber.

 

What makes you think that the repro rims are made to any standard?

[KMF]

When you weld a metal, the heat causes the grains within the metal to grow, known as grain growth. When a weld fails you will find it is not the actual weld that is failing but the heat efected area, that is the area right against the weld. As the grains grow with the efect of heat it makes that area brittle. It is that efect that causes the metal to fail. If you were to anneal the wheel after welding that will reduce the size of he metal grains, that will releive the stresses within the metal and make it more stable. When a new wheel is made it is manufactured from flat steel plate that is stamped and pressed to shape, this will produse work hardening within the metal but this is found to be acceptable and the usual practice. Even if the company producing the wheel is unknown the metal will have been produced in a metal foundry from a known metal. This will be a low carbon steel (ordinary metal to you and i). On a car there is many places you can weld but a wheel is not one i would risk, it is not the speed you go but the up and down pounding the wheels are subject to during the normal driving day, that is without even going off road and remember these are off road cars

[Blackpowder44]

Weld them up and drill/countersink them.

 

A jeep rim will never see more than 45-50mph. Hardly fast enough to need any balance weight whatsoever.

 

A modern wheel of aluminum or alloy doing 60+ MPH, yes. A stamped steel combat wheel with split rims, bolts, and a huge NDT tire???? Forget out all that mico-balance heat stress jibba-jabber.

 

What makes you think that the repro rims are made to any standard?

If thats the case, why have my front jeep wheels had to have ballance weights to lessen the steering chatter. John

[gritineye]

Just put some wide washers behind the nuts, they'll press to shape, works a treat.

[deadline]

The topic of WHY you should balance a tire is way to ideological than scientific. Like 'what the best oil'.

 

You do know that the tire balance machine only balances the tire for one speed? It uses several RPM ranges too determine the point of largest variation, then counterweight that one point. It is still out of 'balance' at every other speed. At less than 35MPH or so it really doesn't matter unless the rim is bent, not out of balance.

 

As for all this welding mico heat stress jibba jabba there is so much heat generated in the stamping of the wheel that a mig torch putting a small bead around a lug hole is nothing. There are millions of welded rims out there.. they are not blowing up and killing small children during parades (that's in an inside joke).

 

You do know that most steel rims ARE WELDED? Origianlly (aka pre 40s-50s) they were riveted, but rivets are a poor choice.. welding is much safer and stronger.

 

Weld, don't weld, its your call, but its completely safe and done all the time (on steel rims).

Edited September 21, 2010 by deadline

[deadline]

This business will specifically weld/repair lug holes

 

http://www.wheelsamerica.com/index.php?page=faq#q18

 

Q17. My lug nuts came loose and damaged the lug holes in my wheel, can that be fixed?

A17. Yes, we weld in and re-drill the damaged lug areas. After that is done, the wheel is refinished to look and perform like new again. This is an additional cost and takes extra time.

 

As I said.. done ALL the time.

[mike65]

The topic of WHY you should balance a tire is way to ideological than scientific. Like 'what the best oil'.

 

You've now got me wondering why I bothered having the wheels balanced on the Land Rover. Mind you I think I got my money's worth of lead on them.

 

I also new somebody who stripped the thread on the syub axle of a beetle so to prevent the wheel and drum coming off he welded it up. Mind you he was an Estate Agent!

 

Mike

[deadline]

Again, above a certain speed (roughly 30-35MPH) you do need to balance a tire. But below that, not really.

 

If you own a motorcycle (I own a Suzuki C-50) I go to great pains to AVOID lead counterweights by balancing the tire WITH the rim. Normally I can balance a motorcycle tire without any lead by using the tire to counterbalance the rim (just ignore that yellow dot and balance it statically).

 

But on a car, I do what most do, take it to the shop and let the tire flunky (the guy doing balance and mounting is never the best guy in the garage.. usually the newest) and let the machine get it close. If you are using more than a few ounces of lead then your rim is really out of wack. There is a max amount that should be used... but I can't remember off the top of my head.

 

There are so many 'old wives tales' regarding cars due to the early problems of the modern cars (late 60s, 70's and 80s in particular) that its really not worth informing people who have little more than empirical evidence (my tire has a lot of lead.. it must be in balance! :nut:)

 

90% of the information people have is nothing more than sales/ manufacturing liability avoidance than good automotive information.

 

You do change your oil every 3000 miles, right?? :nut::nut:

[KMF]

Well as a qualified mechanical engineer who specialised in material technology and material properties of steels and plastics I wont be welding any wheels on my car. Many years ago in custom car following, you could find wheels that were cut in half then a band of metal welded in to wider them, that practice was soon got rid of for safety reasons. That was because of the stresses caused by welding around the heat effected zone and the problems with the wheels being excesivly out of ballance. Wheels that are excesivly out of ballance put extra strain on the wheel bearings that will shorten their lives dramaticaly. At the end of the day it is all for safety reasons. Wheel manufactures are covered by public liability insurance against problems that might occur, Joe Blogs the welder might not have the expertise of wheel construction, why risk when safety is the issue.

[Stormin]

How many large trucks have there wheels balanced anyway?

 

I remember years ago buying some 7.50 SAT copies for my Land Rover, took them to the local tyre fitting shop, they said they were so far out he couldn't balance them. I was expecting the vehicle to drive like a pig and be all over the road. I used it regularly on the motorway to work and to off-road events and never felt any problem.

[deadline]

Well as a qualified mechanical engineer who specialised in material technology and material properties of steels and plastics I wont be welding any wheels on my car. Many years ago in custom car following, you could find wheels that were cut in half then a band of metal welded in to wider them, that practice was soon got rid of for safety reasons. That was because of the stresses caused by welding around the heat effected zone and the problems with the wheels being excesivly out of ballance. Wheels that are excesivly out of ballance put extra strain on the wheel bearings that will shorten their lives dramaticaly. At the end of the day it is all for safety reasons. Wheel manufactures are covered by public liability insurance against problems that might occur, Joe Blogs the welder might not have the expertise of wheel construction, why risk when safety is the issue.

 

Widening wheels is still done today. How do you think they get those Mickey Thompson drag tires on old muscle cars?

 

I can send you link after link of businesses (in the US and UK) that do this all the time SAFELY without incident.

 

You can believe all you like about micro stress fractures etc, but real world is that it really isn't a huge issue.

 

http://www.bandedsteels.com/Banded%20Steels.html

 

Again, today, 2010, steel wheels are MADE by welding a center hub to an outer rim.

 

Other than cast or milled alloy rims, every steel rim is gonna have a weld somewhere.

 

If you do it wrong (not enough heat, to little penetration, wrong wire/rod) then of course you can have issues. But again, done ALL THE TIME. NEW STEEL RIMS ARE WELDED DURING CONSTRUCTION.

 

The only reason I will pass on an original combat rim is excessive pitting on the rim or bead. I see TONS of out of round lug holes, and most people pass because of that. I would happily buy them (I need a set for my 1/4 ton trailer) but its usually the bead is to pitted or the valve stem hole is shot. Both are fixable, but to much time is involved.

 

If you have a pair of combat rims to sell (in the USA) that only has elongated lug holes let me know... I need two.

Edited September 21, 2010 by deadline

[deadline]

Obligatory link to wide (up to 10 inch) welded steel rims

 

http://www.roadsters.com/wheels/#Race

 

Most are for racing, because the average 4 cylinder econo-box could never turn a wheel that wide with the engine in it.

 

Needless to say, it ain't rocket science (marketing drivel, but not a lot of science).

[KMF]

Well all i can say is that anyone who condones that kind of practice is neither a mechanical engineer nor studied material technology