question Caption competition

[Roy Larkin]

The majority of the US trucks would need six tyres each. The mileage you could expect from a set is in the thousands, certainly not more than 10,000. High speeds and bad roads would reduce this figure further. At the end of the war the US had exported over 40,000 heavy trucks to France, so if they all needed new tyres at the same time that would be 360,000.

 

As you can work out they could get through 85,000 tyres very quickly. I am just trying to find out where this photo was taken, but i think it was at the main truck repair/reconstruction depot just South of Paris.

 

I have just written an article for MMI on this depot (having found a great big bundle of original photos), and hopefully it will come out in the September issue.

 

Tim,

 

I think that 10,000 miles is a bit over optimistic. In fact, I think 5,000 also very optimistic. ASC Mobile Workshops had tyre presses that did nothing but change tyres 24/7 and the Repair Bases changed them in their thousands. Damage seems to have been a major factor rather than wear, although at least one company needed to change tyres en-route to Italy, despite leaving Flanders with new tyres fitted.

 

I'm curious about the Repair Base you mention 'south of Paris'. Do you have a more precise location? I've not come across a British base south of Paris, was it French?

[Roy Larkin]

Whilst it is hard to find good photos of mechanized transport from WW1, ........QUOTE]

 

Isn't that the truth! We do tend to build up a (not necessarily accurate) idea of what went on from pouring over photographs as much as reading, and I'll own up to not having read much abour WW1. So I had formed the view that motorised transport was pretty thin on the ground.

 

A bit like trying to find photos of the major supply depot at Beugny - begining to wonder if it even existed!

 

Major supply depot ay Beugny? Not sure there was one, or at least not a permanent one. It looks a bit too close to the front line for there to be a base there. Possibly a railhead, which would have been emptied as fast as it filled up. I'd need to check more, but Beugny doesn't ring a bell at the moment, although surrounding villages and towns I do recognise as haveing railheads.

[N.O.S.]

Roy - I found it described as a major (or significant) supply depot / railhead whilst researching Private Jackson's movements in 1917/18. Give me a day or two and I'll see if I can track down the source of the description. The course of a couple of narrow gauge line earthworks can be seen radiating from the path of the standard gauge railway there on Google satmaps.

 

Any info on Beugny would be very much appreciated - it seems to have escaped wartime publicity despite being one of those villages/towns which was taken, lost and retaken during this period as the front moved back and forward

[Roy Larkin]

Roy - I found it described as a major (or significant) supply depot / railhead whilst researching Private Jackson's movements in 1917/18. Give me a day or two and I'll see if I can track down the source of the description. The course of a couple of narrow gauge line earthworks can be seen radiating from the path of the standard gauge railway there on Google satmaps.

 

Any info on Beugny would be very much appreciated - it seems to have escaped wartime publicity despite being one of those villages/towns which was taken, lost and retaken during this period as the front moved back and forward

 

If you know what company Private Jackson served with then I'll check my records. I've had a quick check through companies that worked in that area and they mention railheads in the surrounding villages and towns, but no mention of Beugny as yet. Still got a lot of detailed checking to do though.

[N.O.S.]

He was with B Company, 1st Battalion Norfolk Regt.

 

Look in thread 'A Sad Ending?' around pages 7 - 14 for Regt. Diary info.

 

Some outline info is also to be found in the New Zealand Regt records also, for the final taking of Beugny on 2nd Sep 1918 in which they participated with the Norfolks.

[Richard Peskett]

Thought this may be of interest, attached photograoph of a solid tyre press in use. This one has probably pressed on/off more solids than any other in recent years, it belongs to Barry Weatherhead at Woburn Sands and had previously be used as such as a Dunlop depot in Bedford. I was involved in moving it and the dead weight is the best part of 14 tons. Worked by hand operated water hydraulics, much safer than mechanical pumping as you need complete control over what you are doing and on a zero option with a wood spoke wheel best part of 90 years old. Shown here it is pressing on / off a rear from the IWM Thornycroft 'J' anti - aircraft gun lorry. The new tyre is being used to press the old off but you can use the stool blocks . The press table comes up from below and presses against the head, the string in the picture is only holding the temporary weather protection on not the press head !.

The London General took great interest into tyre mileages and I believe they were looking at a return of at least 54000 miles for a tyre. I will check this in the next few days and comment further on some of the problems with solids.

Richard Peskett.

 

[abn deuce]

I must be going blind both wheels or sets of wheels appear in top condition from the angle shown .

 

14,000 lbs yikes must have had quite a bit of machinery and rigging involved in moving that , are plans to put it indoors or just build a shelter around it ?

[Richard Peskett]

Well spotted !, they are both new but the one we were pressing off had a serious fault in it which became apparent after a few miles. Sometimes in manufacture , and without getting too technical , when heated in the autoclave an air pocket can form with the consequence that when the tyre is on the vehicle it naturally heats up quite quickly, the air expands and part of the tyre blows out. I can assure you it is quite impressive but a fairly rare occurance. The quoted Dunlop warrantee was 16 k/m ( 10 mph) and the legal speed for most solid tyred vehicles 12 mph.

Richard Peskett.

[Richard Peskett]

Sorry, I ommited to answer fully. The press does now have a cover which goes over it, the pictures were taken about 1989. Its a bit like an iceberg - there is almost as much below ground because of the ram which comes up from below. It does dismantle but is still heavy ! . My friend missed the original opportunity to purchase it but days later received a call re offering same as the first intended purchaser came to grief when the crane lowered it onto his lorry and destroyed the lorry, not realising the gross weight. I measured it and cubed it up to get the weight and remember that we were only a few cwt out ( over) on the crane weight reading.

Richard Peskett.

[N.O.S.]

Great pictures, Richard. Makes me more convinced that my press could have been a tyre press from new.

[Richard Peskett]

Bit of further info., the gap in the head of the press is for access with a block and tackle. When installed properly inside there would have been a runway girder with monkey , block and tackle etc. to lift the wheel on and off the press table. One must appreciate that a complete rear wheel assembly with tyres was a considerable weight.

Richard Peskett.

[N.O.S.]

As per the photo in post 41

[abn deuce]

Thank You for the details Richard .

[Roy Larkin]

Well spotted !, they are both new but the one we were pressing off had a serious fault in it which became apparent after a few miles. Sometimes in manufacture , and without getting too technical , when heated in the autoclave an air pocket can form with the consequence that when the tyre is on the vehicle it naturally heats up quite quickly, the air expands and part of the tyre blows out. I can assure you it is quite impressive but a fairly rare occurance. The quoted Dunlop warrantee was 16 k/m ( 10 mph) and the legal speed for most solid tyred vehicles 12 mph.

Richard Peskett.

 

I'm in contact with a chap who drove lorries on solid tyres for a living and he recalls that when new tyres were fitted that it was essential to run them in at reduced speed otherwise they 'blew out' just as Richard described.

 

The quoted Dunlop Warranty is interesting as the War Office stated that gearing should not allow more than 16mph when in top gear. I wonder what the tyre manufacturers thought about that!

[Roy Larkin]

He was with B Company, 1st Battalion Norfolk Regt.

 

Look in thread 'A Sad Ending?' around pages 7 - 14 for Regt. Diary info.

 

Some outline info is also to be found in the New Zealand Regt records also, for the final taking of Beugny on 2nd Sep 1918 in which they participated with the Norfolks.

 

I'm working through Divisional Supply Columns at the moment. They rarely, if ever, mention Battalions, usually only the Army or Corps and then only sometimes. The DSCs I've found working that area so far make no mention of Beugny, though do mention nearly every surrounding village or town. Still got plenty of DVCs, Ammunition Parks etc. to work through, so I'll let you know if I come across anything.

[N.O.S.]

Thanks. I came across a description of Beugny as being an ammunition dump for the 1918 offensive - presumably in its capacity as a railhead, but can't find the earlier depot desription as yet!

 

http://www.circlecity.co.uk/wartime/board/index.php?page=6

 

Interesting site that.

[Roy Larkin]

Thanks. I came across a description of Beugny as being an ammunition dump for the 1918 offensive - presumably in its capacity as a railhead, but can't find the earlier depot desription as yet!

 

http://www.circlecity.co.uk/wartime/board/index.php?page=6

 

Interesting site that.

 

OK. I've got ammunition parks still to do. Will get onto those when the DSCs are done.

[Richard Peskett]

Tyres and sizes, back to no. 50. I have looked up some facts and figures from M of M statistics 1914 /18 and found the demand for solid tyres from the front in Oct. 1916 was about 5400 per week and between 20 /30 sizes ( so much for standardization ! ). In Nov. 1916 there were about 19900 trucks in France on solids which equates to about 119400 tyres which in turn equates to a tyre lasting an averager of about 22 weeks.

Richard Peskett.

[Brooky]

What ******** size did he want????????????????????

[Richard Peskett]

If my average of 22 weeks for a tyres life is taken, possibly a truck would run a maximum of 150 miles a week under such conditions ( this may well be less) then a tyre is lasting about 3300 miles . Any thoughts ?. Driving a solid tyre truck for 30 miles a day for 5 days would be no mean feat.

Richard Peskett.

[N.O.S.]

Sounds reasonable Richard. No doubt with poor muddy road conditions there would be a lot of wheelslip, and solid tyres would be liable to be sliced to shreds by the inevitable flints.

[Great War truck]

If my average of 22 weeks for a tyres life is taken, possibly a truck would run a maximum of 150 miles a week under such conditions ( this may well be less) then a tyre is lasting about 3300 miles . Any thoughts ?. Driving a solid tyre truck for 30 miles a day for 5 days would be no mean feat.

Richard Peskett.

 

I agree that 30 miles a day for five days a week would be exhausting for us (just doing London to Brighton for one day in 365 is exhausting), but i think these drivers had to do a great deal more. Ron Harris has leant me his wifes uncles memoirs (he was an ASC lorry driver from 1915 to 1919) and he refers to a hundred miles a day journeys. In addition he gives a fuel consumption of his Daimler CB (two ton) as between 18 and 22 gallons miles a day. A document I found at the IWM gives an average fuel consumption of the CB as being 13 mpg. So that equates to between 234 and 286 miles a day. Of course the roads were all shot to hell and he may have spent a lot of time sitting in traffic so the actual distance travelled would be a lot less. It is very hard to find any good evidence of what the life of a lorry driver was like, but these memoirs are very informative indeed.

 

Tim

[Roy Larkin]

I agree that 30 miles a day for five days a week would be exhausting for us (just doing London to Brighton for one day in 365 is exhausting), but i think these drivers had to do a great deal more. Ron Harris has leant me his wifes uncles memoirs (he was an ASC lorry driver from 1915 to 1919) and he refers to a hundred miles a day journeys. In addition he gives a fuel consumption of his Daimler CB (two ton) as between 18 and 22 gallons miles a day. A document I found at the IWM gives an average fuel consumption of the CB as being 13 mpg. So that equates to between 234 and 286 miles a day. Of course the roads were all shot to hell and he may have spent a lot of time sitting in traffic so the actual distance travelled would be a lot less. It is very hard to find any good evidence of what the life of a lorry driver was like, but these memoirs are very informative indeed.

 

Tim

 

It all depended on the work the ASC company was employed on, whether Divisional Supply Columns, Ammunition Parks etc and also the work they were doing, whether servicing the front lines or further back supporting the RE and Labour Corps with road maintenance. Serving the front lines seems to average about 5 miles to railhead in the afternoon, between 10 and 15 miles to the front line and then 10-20 miles back to base so average daily mileage would be about 40, though there are plenty of instances where the average was nearer 60 and at times during the heat of battle that would rise considerably. During the German advance in 1918, 100+ miles per day was more usual with drivers working 60 hours non-stop. Basically they ate after fuelling the lorries during loading and slept while queuing to load or unload or until the next bump woke them up. The working week was 7 days, every week, only when pulled to the back lines for 'rest and maintenance' did they work less than 7 days.

 

Daimler CBs doing 13mpg seems a bit unusual! All the figures I've seen record average mpg as between 4.5 and 5.

 

I think that 22 weeks was a bit optimistic for tyres, some of the larger ASC companies had a tyre press permanently attached changing between 20 and 30 tyres per day. The companies that were sent by road to Italy left Flanders with new tyres fitted and needed new tyres again at Lyon, which were fitted in the Berliet factory there. Having said that, one company who took a very steady drive to Italy arrived just as quick because it lost no time through breakdowns and needed no tyres at all. Certainly more tyres were replaced through damage than wearingout, although the damage did help with getting grip. Amazing what a few chunks missing can do on a muddy road.

[Great War truck]

 

Daimler CBs doing 13mpg seems a bit unusual! All the figures I've seen record average mpg as between 4.5 and 5.

 

 

For a CB, are you sure? A CC should give 5 Mpg, compared to the FWD (the worst of the lot) at 3.5 Mpg. cant see a figure in the Automobile engineer for it.

[Eaglehurst]

In spite of cutbacks in the War Department the British version of the Maginot line proved to be surprisingly effective....