oily Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 Hi all, if anyone has any pics or info on the subject mentioned, both my father Robert Kill, and I would be eternally grateful. He served in Aden in I think 1956/ '57/ and possibly '58, helping to train the A.P.L. to drive Ferrets. My Dad was in 3rd The Kings Own Hussars, and later The Queens Own Hussars. We have been scouring the web for pics and info, and I've just suddenly thought, POSSIBLY, somebody on here just may have some old snaps, that they could post up...... it'd make an old soldier very happy!:-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 http://www.soldiermagazine.co.uk/flashback/pages/266.pdf http://www.hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?t=5252 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Kill Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 thanks Mr 'Safariswing'....... Dad has joined forum now..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlienFTM Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 You might also want to join http://www.arrse.co.uk and ask on either the RAC or the Old'n'Bold forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigdog Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 (edited) This site has some pics and stories: http://britains-smallwars.com/Aden/index.html http://britains-smallwars.com/AVA/gallery.htm Also if your dad has any Ferret driving tips I could use them. I just bought my Ferret last month. Thanks-Chris Ferret 2/3 00 EC 55 Edited December 6, 2009 by pigdog added link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oily Posted December 8, 2009 Author Share Posted December 8, 2009 Hi 'Pigdog'?... :)what would you like to know about driving a Ferret? I own and regularly drive a Saracen, (sort of similar to a Ferret, but on steroids!:cool2: and having grown an extra set of steering wheels),:??? still has the same type of transmission though, ie pre-select, I also, on occasion drive a Ferret, belonging to a very good mate of mine, both vehicles are alot of fun to drive, although, don't be decieved, both need 200% concentration,:nono: whilst on the public roads! moreso in this country, (England), with the narrower roads....a Saracen is over 8ft wide!:sweat: ...attached is a photo of my Saracen at a show this year, that my local friendly Military Vehicle club put on each year. Google them - Solent Overlord Executive. Have fun with your Ferret, Keep in touch! Kind regards oily (Matt Kill) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigdog Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Hi oily, Yes pigdog is english for the German word swinehunde. Sounds a bit funny. I've only driven my Ferret once so far for about 8 miles. I'm in the process of lubing and changing all the fluids for it. I can see it will take a little getting used to driving. I did seem to wander around a bit. Any downshifting tips? I did ok shifting up, but wasnt sure the proper way of using the gas on the downshift. And the manual says to hold the gear change pedal down for a moment then let it out. Is it a no-no to use the gas when the gear change pedal is down? It says not to treat it like a clutch but it seems one would use the gas pedal similar to a manual drive. ? The Saracen must take quite a while to lube. Its taken me 2 days on the Ferret. Chris MK 2/3 Ferret 00 EC 55 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oily Posted December 8, 2009 Author Share Posted December 8, 2009 Ok, others may tell you different, but as far as I can remember when reading my Operator's Handbook, when driving off-road, it is quite acceptable to actually engage a gear,-using the Gear Change Pedal (GCP),with the engine at full revs!, (unbelievable, I know!). Do not, under any circumstances use GCP as a clutch.:nono: If you do, you will end up with 'false neutrals', which are extremely annoying, and can be painful, as the pedal will spring upwards and you usually end up smacking your knee, or shin on something hard! And then it's at least twice as hard to press it down again. It may also wear out the 'brake bands' in the gearbox prematurely,(very expensive to fix!) Driving on the road, when changing down, I ease off the gas, and engage the next gear down, (don't be tempted to 'blip' tha gas pedal:n00b:, it only wastes fuel) (ok, I know yours is a bit cheaper!:argh:) The act of using the GCP is not like a clutch at all, it is always a firm shove down, and to release, its just lift off straight away, letting it return to it's normal position in each gear, under it's own spring tension. True, when downchanging on the road it is wise to pause, with it down, but only for the fractions of a second it takes for the engine revs to match your road speed, for the chosen gear...oh! and only use the gears sequentially, don't skip them. You should find you'll very rarely need 1st, as it is really only for very soft going, or very slow manouvering. With practice it should be entirely possible to pull away, change up through all the gears, and back down again, and come to a halt , with no jerks, or jolts... and going in reverse too!:cool2:, ~~ but only do this if you have lots of room and there are no people or animals or obstructions in the area!:shake: If I can look it out, I'll find the relevant paragraph in my manual, scan it and upload it for you, if you think it'll help.... be warned, on paper, it looks like it's impossible to master, but practice makes perfect!:coffee: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlienFTM Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 I had on-the-job Ferret driver training in NI on arrival from Basic Training. A couple of months back in Tidworth then a 6-month UN tour of Cyprus, for which it was mandated that any designated Ferret driver without formal training get formal training, so for a couple of days in August 1976, we sat around in the sun and listened to a RNZAC Staff Sergeant on exchange as he covered the maintenance aspect of D&M, then we took a Group B driving test. The only thing that stays with me after all this time was he said what has been said here. It is quite legitimate to activate the GCP for a downshift with the throttle down. Think about it. You are bombing uphill and losing speed, needing to change down. You are going to smack the GCP which will do all the gearchanging in the blink of an eye and the fluid flywheel is going to guarantee a smooth change. Why lift your foot off before smacking the GCP? All that is going to happen is you are going to lose revs and road speed. Obviously same style of gearbox in Saracen, but the greater weight means you are more likely to lose revs uphill and have to change down. As oily says, be firm with the GCP. Only ever kick it hard and release immediately or you'll risk a false neutral. It is truly squaddie-proof. Particularly with Saracen. False neutral in a Saracen and you will knee yourself in the face whilst trying to get a free-wheeling steel monster back under control. I cannot really remember driving Saracen. Again, my role made a Saracen qualification worthwhile since we used them as ACVs. Did a Group B test (again). Apart from one Endex returning from the railhead at Paderborn Nord doing 50kph round the ringroad past the high school that was just coming out and all the "sixth formers" were heading for same pub ("Uncle Tom's Cabin") that we would be after a hot bath to get a week's CPX out of the system. Must have been Ex Summer Sales, probably 1979. I remember that at speed, the easiest way to maintain a straight course was actually to rock the steering wheel within the limits of the feedback through the steering wheel from the power steering. Sorry if that sounds nonsensical - it's easier to do than describe. So I don't really remember the gearchange on Saracen. On Ferret ISTR that 1st gear was gated anyway so that you could not select it unless you really thought you needed it, because you pulled away in second. One other driving SOP that springs to mind. The routine of the gearchange was to select gear, smack GCP, rev up, select next gear up, so that the next gear was always pre-selected (hence the name), then when you got into top, pre-select the next gear down immediately after the change. It becomes second nature. Pointless having a pre-selective gearbox and no gear pre-selected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigdog Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Thanks for the driving tips. I'll give it a try next time out. Does it cause damage if you skip gears downshifting? Like if you find yourself having to brake and come to an unanticipated stop? I'll try and get in the habit of preselecting the gears better. Its the stuff the owners manual dosent tell you. Thanks for the help -Chris MK 2/3 Ferret 00 EC 55 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Thanks for the driving tips. I'll give it a try next time out. Does it cause damage if you skip gears downshifting? Like if you find yourself having to brake and come to an unanticipated stop? I'll try and get in the habit of preselecting the gears better. Its the stuff the owners manual dosent tell you. Do not skip gears on a downshift, it is not neccessary and will most certainly be a cause of damage within the box. Any vehicle with these gearboxes, must not be driven like a modern car, ie, on the requirement for a downshift, the vehicle should be slowed ( either by brakes or backing off the throttle early enough), to a suitable speed for the lower gear, before changing down, if not, you will feel a sudden snatch as the box is changed down too early. The shift done right is so smooth there is no snatch or sudden rise in engine revs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oily Posted December 9, 2009 Author Share Posted December 9, 2009 Can't remember 'skipping' a gear in the Ferret, but in my early 'tries' in my Saracen, I did a couple of times, it will change into whatever gear you happen to select, but you must have the revs right, otherwise you'll find yourself snacking on the steering wheel!, not very tasty!,....my 'engineering' brain always 'tells' me to use the gears in sequence, because it's kinder to the ageing components in the gearbox,...I'll only 'skip' gears if the road speed and engine revs allow it.... all down to experience, I suppose. Taking a Ferret out on the road, is probably not that bad, -if you've previously driven large-ish, heavy vehicles, 7.5 ton small trucks, but I can tell you the 1st time I took my Saracen out on the road, was a real baptism of fire!:sweat:...I'd had a fair bit of practice in the field, but didn't have room to get up to normal driving speeds. I soon found out about the 'feel the limit' technique of keeping in a straight-ish line, and discovered the flat spot in a tyre!, that soon disappears when the tyres warm up though..... These Saracens, Stalwarts, Saladins, and Ferrets all tend to wander a little, obviously the six-wheelers more than the Ferrets, probably down to the design:coffee: of the steering mechanism, and the fact there are two sets of wheels doing the direction changing, on primitive off-road tyres.... but you soon get used to it, and manage to pass the time taking 'salutes' to old soldiers, and ex-squaddies who may have fond,(or not so fond!) memories, of these amazing, totally fun pieces of British 1950's engineering:cool2:.....have fun, and please be careful and responsible out on the roads in your new toy:-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oily Posted December 9, 2009 Author Share Posted December 9, 2009 Oh, here's a cool pic of my mate Robs, ex 'Gulf War' Ferret, well we think it is anyway....Can you post some pics of your Ferret?, also, I seem to remeber you were after some insignia, and markings, - I did the ones on my Saracen, depending on the age of your Ferret, ie the time period it is depicted, it would either be Deep Bronze Green (1950's-60's),Nato Green or Nato Green and Black(1973?-onwards) -(others correct me if I've made a boo-boo), or in Desert Stone, or Desert Stone and Black, for use in such places as Aden, etc. I believe they were also used in Canada (BATUS), were they'd have been Desert Stone, and Nato Green.....Norway and they'd be White and Black, or White and Nato Green, and finally White for UN forces. The markings would also be different depending on era, early on, vehicles in Deep Bronze Green (which is actually a base coat, providing a degree of weather resistance), would usually have Division insignia on the front and rear nearsides of the vehicle, and the red, yellow and white R.A.C. Insignia on the front and rear nearsides. Sometimes regiments or corps would add regimental crests or emblems aswell (see pics of my Saracen, small white horse on blue backing,- is white horse of Hanover, being part of the 3rd Kings Own Hussars cap badge). Also Squadron insignia is usually shown on the sides of the turret, or vehicle, in my case, a red triangle depicts 'A' Sqn, also shown on my Saracen in the centre of the Sqn insignia is the 'New Zealand Fern', which is again part of the regiments battle honour history, and was awarded to the regiment to commemorate the New Zealand forces assisting on one of the many conflicts. On the rear of my Saracen you will see vertical black and white 'convoy' markings, used by the vehicle following as an aid to judging distance when using limited lighting... When vehicles started being painted in Nato colours, -green, or green and black etc, usually the only markings shown, were I believe a small Union Jack, on the nearside, front and rear, and the convoy markings...with UN vehicle 'emblazoned' with the large black 'UN' and the logo.... If you want I can get the R.A.C. insignia, the convoy markings done over here, as I have a good friend in the vehicle signwriting business... you come up with the design,-he makes them into vehicle graphics, and very good they are too Lastly a lot of British Army vehicles have the yellow 'Bridge Classification' disc fitted to the front, where it would be visible to anyone controlling/marshalling, a river crossing for example, on the disc would be marked the maximum weight the vehicle would be, so as to avoid overloading a bridge/ferry etc. Hope all this is of some help!, Happy 'Ferreting' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 I will split this thread in the morning as it has gone off topic.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oily Posted December 10, 2009 Author Share Posted December 10, 2009 Fair do's guv, sorry to tread on yer toes, was just trying to help the guy in the states, maybe you could explain to him where he should be posting his posts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Fair do's guv, sorry to tread on yer toes, was just trying to help the guy in the states, maybe you could explain to him where he should be posting his posts? it's ok I'll split this one into two threads in the morning... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigdog Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Sorry bout that. let me just say I have uploaded photos to my album Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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