LoggyDriver Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 Did anyone see the programmes on TV recently about Blue Streak and Black Knight and the V Force bombers? VERY interesting programmes and just underlines how flippin good we were at designing military equipment on a shoe string. To think we gave it all up (like everything else). I bet the scientists were gutted.:-( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radiomike7 Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 Did anyone see the programmes on TV recently about Blue Streak and Black Knight and the V Force bombers? VERY interesting programmes and just underlines how flippin good we were at designing military equipment on a shoe string. To think we gave it all up (like everything else). I bet the scientists were gutted.:-( Yes, they were excellent and managed to avoid those idiotic computer generated simulations that seem to blight most documentaries these days. Speak to any of the ground crew who had to service the Blue Steel stand off missile and I doubt any will rave about the design, particularly the HTP oxidiser:shake: Quote:Avro Blue Steel air-launched nuclear missiles were carried by Avro Vulcans and Handley Page Victor bombers. One round wold be carried by each aircraft. The fuel used by the Stentor engine was High Test Peroxide (HTP), comprising a lethal combination of Hydrogen Peroxide and other assorted chemicals. Special suits had to be worn by the handling personnel when fuelling the Blue Steel because HTP would burn way any organic material it came into contact with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewroberts.1953 Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 Yes, and all the electronics were valved no transistors! At least the HTP could be washed away with water if it leaked, the USA kit could not. Don't forget the very small Rover built gas turbine engines for cars, fire pumps, etc. The Lightning, which even an F16 could not catch! Lots of the people and ideas, ended up the USA. NASA, would not have got very far without British, and German engineers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlienFTM Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 Last week on Meridian they visited the Black Arrow (?) launch site on the Isle of White. I really thought that using the Isle of Wight as a rocket test range was a wah, but apparently not. The programme mentioned the launch of the UK's sole entirely-UK satellite, launched about 1971, before we gave up trying to compete and started buying off-the-shelf USA kit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woa2 Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 The fuel used by the Stentor engine was High Test Peroxide (HTP), comprising a lethal combination of Hydrogen Peroxide and other assorted chemicals. Special suits had to be worn by the handling personnel when fuelling the Blue Steel because HTP would burn way any organic material it came into contact with. Didn't the German Me163 use Peroxide and didn't they have problems with fires? Anyone know more details? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enigma Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 Didn't the German Me163 use Peroxide and didn't they have problems with fires? Anyone know more details? Some exploded upon landing because of fuel/fumes left in the tanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FW200 Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 Some exploded upon landing because of fuel/fumes left in the tanks. Or dissolved the pilots when there was combat damage.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 (edited) Some exploded upon landing because of fuel/fumes left in the tanks. The propellants were contained in glass tanks, you could be lucky and land safely with residual fuel / oxidizer in the tanks, but the Me163 jettisoned its wheels on take off and landed on a skid. It was when the heavy bump of landing broke the glass tanks that the pilot was in real trouble. However planes could sometimes just explode as they sat on the runway ready for flight, and fuel was lead from the tanks to the rocket motor in metal pipes, and these also had a history of unexpected, unexplained failure. The Fuel was actually called C-stoff and was 57% Methanol 30% Hydrazine, and 13% Water, the oxidiser T-stoff was 80% Hydrogen Peroxide, 20% Oxyquinoline. Edited August 15, 2009 by antarmike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 (edited) Yes, but HTP is like Peroxide on steroids. HTP is the name given to any Hydrogen Peroxide, water mix where there is more than 70% Hydrogen peroxide. It generally only contains Hydrogen Peroxide and water, so what the "Steroids" are I don't know. Generally the range in post war use was 85-98% peroxide. HTP is used also on some torpedo propellants, and the Russian Kursk Submarine disaster was thought to be due to an explosion in a malfunctioning HTP Torpedo. (the British also lost a submarine to this cause) The Russian Soyuz Rocket uses HTP in some applications. Edited August 15, 2009 by antarmike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 (edited) Quote:Avro Blue Steel air-launched nuclear missiles ...The fuel used by the Stentor engine was High Test Peroxide (HTP), comprising a lethal combination of Hydrogen Peroxide and other assorted chemicals. The fuel for Blue Steel was not HTP, it was Kerosene. HTP was the Oxidiser that was mixed with the fuel in the rocket engine. I do not want to insult anyones intelligence but for those not following what I am saying, Concider HTP to be the equivilent of Oxygen in the atmosphere, which is drawn into the combustion chamber of a diesel engine. The Oxygen in the cylinder oxidizes the Fuel (Heavy oil or derv) to release energy. In Blue steel the fuel was "burnt" in the engine, not by Oxygen from the atmosphere, but by Oxygen released from the HTP as it broke down. HTP can be used as a mono-propellant, ( in a mono-propellant HTP is mixed with a Catalyst which causes it to break down into Hydrogen and Oxygen, that are then burnt together.) and in this case it is the fuel. But in a Bi-propellant situation like Blue Steel, the fuel is Kerosene, and the HTP is classed as an Oxydizer. However Blue Streak did not use HTP. The Blue Streak missiles used liquid oxygen and kerosene propellants. Whilst the vehicle could be left fully laden with 20+ tonnes of kerosene, the 60 tonnes of liquid oxygen had to be loaded immediately before launch or icing became a problem. Due to this, fuelling the rocket took 15 minutes, which would have made it useless as a rapid response to an attack. Edited August 15, 2009 by antarmike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
younggun Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 all 3 programs are here http://www.channel4.com/programmes/engineering-britains-superweapons for those who missed them :-\ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radiomike7 Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 The fuel for Blue Steel was not HTP, it was Kerosene. HTP was the Oxidiser that was mixed with the fuel in the rocket engine. Absolutely correct Mike, I quoted the caption from the Stentor engine at a Scottish museum without reading it twice. It would appear that they were also wrong about the make up of HTP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 Don't worry, I can't remember the number of times I have accepted what I have seen written, and used it as pukka info... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewroberts.1953 Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Try this link, http://www.spaceuk.org. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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