8_10 Brass Cleaner

There was a dealer at the Onslow Park steam rally in august, he had some tank road wheels. Anyone know who he was? A mate is looking for some usable Cheiftain (etc) ones to go on a trailer behind a steamer.

I can vouch that driving a steamer ruins clothes. The total loss lubrication sees to that!. I have a number of trousers/shirts so ruined for reuse time and time again. I think the uniforms were the least of the problems!. The front steamer was in Australia during the war, but is of the correct 'type', and the owner has spent a lot of time to get it to look 'right'. The engine on the back is the 'real deal', new to the WD as gun tractor. The trailer is post 2nd world war Crane trailer built for Pickfords (i.e used behind Diamond T's etc), but to look at its fairly typical of a '20s haulage trailer if a little complicated in detail due to its age. As a great war era trailer - nothing like one. The WD certainly wouldn't be messing by towing the Holt gun tractor about on a trailer with two steamers during the war, they'd have put it on a train!. As I said before, the haulage is certainly a 'good show', the enginemen involved being some of the best in the country, and I dont doubt that a lot of planning has gone into the scene. However historically the specticle is it almost totally inaccurate. I have no doubt however that it has done the trick for the GDSF, lots of good publicity!. The Burrell towing two traction wagons is very accurate, both of general haulage in at the time, and thus likely wartime. Steamers comandeered for the war effort that did not get used in France usually did not get repainted, they were simply used as they were, perhaps with some WD numbering signwritten on and the previous owners name removed. The Foden, AKA 'The dump truck' is also the real deal, WW1 era WD tipper. It stayed in France after the war and was used either for carrying potatoes or coal (I cant for the life of me remember). It came back to the UK in the 1970's pretty much unmolested from its wartime condition. Please dont take this as criticism, its just personally I would have liked to see a historically accurate re-enactment, rather than something dreampt up as a 'good show' I'm told the WD learnt early on that steamers anywhere near the front line were simply target practice for the German artillery due to the smoke. The use by the WD of petrol lorries in quantity is what killed steamers for that purpose after the war. There were so many petrol lorries availible after the war.

A number of us have been wondering. But

I'm afraid it did nothing for me. The haulage is always a good show, but it was not a very authentic set up. Its worth noting the WD liveried McLaren was steamed for the first time after extensive work to drive it onto the lowloader to get there. You'll notice they didnt have time to fit bottom gear!. Nice to see the Foden steaming so well, its had new firebars which has transformed it.

Thanks John - something else to consider! As you will have gathered, we do like to use the original parts as far as possible so we will not give up on either set just yet. We will get them off first and have a good look at them before finally deciding! Tony If you were to use both types in service you will find the cast ones perform better. The presseds steel ones will distort in use, which doesnt help efficiency. The iron ones will be stiffer and will not distort to the same degree.

It srikes me not only are they different, but also two different materials. The upper ones are castings, likely iron. Hence the strengthening rib. The lower ones are pressed steel.

Theres a Sentinel 'Super' or 'DG' (i can remember shich it is) steam waggon about that had one of them fitted when new. I seem to remember that it was ex Callow Rock in Somerset. I suspect the truth was that the walking floor apparatus was probably cheaper than a tipper.

From talking to the gents at Leamington at the weekend, mechanically it was good to go, though they wanted the gent who had rebuilt the engine to attend and start it. Otherwise all I could see is that it wants a body and some wings.

A nice Suprise on a visit to Leamington Spa yesterday, was a well advanced Maudslay on the Pump Room park, with some re-enactors. some pics

Is there any consensus on the estimates? Personally I think some are far to high, particularly when it comes to the non military trucks. What does anyone else think. PM is neccassary, I've family who fancies one truck in particular.

could a period P&H dynamo/generator be re-engineered to suit?

Now thats more like it, I can well believe the restoration costing near the 100K mark.

Yes, I had a good look of them. A narrative of the restoration would be very interesting. You can just make out that a correct B type engine was procured seperatley, I wonder where the other bits came from?. It looks like its going to be a splendid machine when done.

The basis of the restoration seems to be this (bar the body). Whilst it looks to be a B/Y type hybrid, its a good starting point. Source https://www.flickr.com/photos/23700069@N03/

How about something like this. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Red-Reflector-20mm-Round-Self-Adhesive-Stick-On-Pair-/181230585581?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item2a322f46ed

Having recently read a book on Marsons Road Services and some of the men involved it seems that on the Scammell 100 tonner they had problems with the wheel revolving within the tyre when working hard. They solved it by pressing the wheels on with rubber fire hose between the two. I've just aquired some solid rubber tyres that have come off a steam wagon because they were loose. They are bored out tank road wheels and are slightly oversize for a 670mm wheel. I intend using an adhesive between the rubber backing and the cast wheel of my trailer. another option with a loose wheel and one I have thought about it to use a Sal-Ammoniac paste. Basically a mixture of sulphur, iron and urine, the mixture causes quick corrosion and thus used in boilermaking to seal. The way it works is iron oxide is expansive so the boiler seals as it rusts. I wondered if this would work on a loose tyre. The trouble is with my tyres is as they are bored out tank road wheels there isnt a continuous plate, its ribbed. However with a proper smooth backing on a press on tyre I would have thought it would work well.

All the bearings on the steamer are oil and total loss with no method of oil retaining. They are all plain also. Front wheels are bronze bushes in the wheel, and steel axle. We use a 460 compounded oil, I think the one I use is a tallow compounding, but rape oil is also used. This makes it sticky so that it stays in the bearing as long as possible. With the front wheels and egg cup full down the filler seems to do the day, which can be near 60miles some days. They never get hot, and I dont see swarf. Saying that they are not a particularly good fit either!

Steve Presumably the specification was so that wheels could easily be swapped about. Were the wheel sizes for example also specified? Just looking at the pictures it looks like your Dennis may well be on 670's on the front? Our Carrimore trailer is also on fully floating bronze bushes, on grease I have found that there is a significant drag untill the grease has warmed up. The steamer doesnt really notice, but the Fordson Major certainly did!. Its previous owner ran it on oil and says found it easier to tow. The wings on the stauffers could simply be cut out and silver soldered onto your existing ones. A lot of work for little return however!

Will, On something that is of rivetted construction that is intended to hold a cold liquid it was not uncommon to insert tarred paper between the plates to be joined to help seal with the hot riveting process. I have seen this in water tanks for traction engines. However quite why you would want to keep water in a Thorneycroft wheel is beyond me. Tapered wheel bearings are also commonplace on traction engines, same engineering - plain bronze bushes (sometimes cast iron) running on iron or steel axles. In terms of age its the same era, some traction engine makers actually made wheels for this era I/C lorries.

Axles have large baulks of wood between the metal axles and springs, likely Oak. Typical 'cart' construction. The front and rear wheels are identical save for the drums. Why have two patterns when you can have one?. Lovelly set of 120 x 670 Dunlops on it too.

David There is stuff still about. I had a jaunt out to look at a trailer on monday, and this is what I found Not military I know, probably early 1920's and on good tyres. It gives you an idea whats still about to find.

Perhaps someone looking for a Dorman 4JO may find some joy in contacting some of the narrow gauge blokes. I seem to remember that WW1 Motor Rail simplex's have Dorman engines. Actually I seem to remember that the Festiniog Railways has a 4JO, I watched them start it when I was there last. It involved bump starting it with a steam loco. Progress for you!

I remember going to somewhere in the outskirts of Chester to fetch a pair of those with father, there was a Burrell steam roller there red rusty in the yard. What happened to those? P.S has Graeme done more on his Fowler yet? last time I was there he had just had the boiler back. He is a top notch engineer and rebuilt the Boer War Fowler road engine for its owner.

Robert Over here it is possible to buy old stock, unused Cheiftain Tank road wheels at anything from £50 to £100. If gas out the middle, and turn the inside accuratley (on a borer) they will press onto a 670 wheel. The rubber section is quite flat, and they are about 5inches wide. They make a nice replacment for a 670x160. I've put a set as they came (centres still in place) on my living van. I guess you will be able to find some in Australia. Here is what they look like with the centre in them

I recall it was a pain in the arse as the chassis lived on it side leaning on the garage wall in its time in Ruthin. I suspect it was fortunate not to get cut off!