8_10 Brass Cleaner

Is that a Leyland Lioness behind?

We happened to bump into Steven Pettifer (ex Thorny J owner) on Monday morning at Berrington, just north of Leominster Father and I were in a layby steaming up the Marshall ready for another 15 miles and he stopped in his Bullnose Morris on his way back to Dorset. He used to have a Garrett steam tractor also.

Steve, I realise that the Thornycroft will be a bitza like the Dennis, but I recall father identified the particular wagon that you have the gearbox, bulkhead, rotten fuel tank and knackered chassis off. The Caernarvonshire licencing records had it there, CC1720 as I recall. Is it thus possible to trace that particular (very incomplete) wagon to an original owner?

On a similar note, many vehicles were comandeered for military use, but did not see service in france. Our Marshall steam tractor was one such vehicle, we assume it was either used for driving a baler for baling hay, or perhaps haulage. We have a picture of it with military markings.

Tony, My experiance is similar. The personnel make the world of difference. Brother in Law used to work for Leicestershire Museums service, and while with them got their Marshall steam tractor into working order. Once he left nothing happened to it. Some years later myself, him and a few others tried to negotiate a loan. I inspected it for condition and historical accuracy, wrote a report and submitted it. I know a far bit about it, in its previous life many parts off our similar engine were borrowed to copy for theirs, I have correspondance with two previous owners etc. Seemingly 'we' as a group knew more about it than the 'museum' who own it, judging from the responce we got. It was not a goe-er in the end. On the other hand last august I got involved by the brother in law in the removal from the Science museum store at Wroughton of their McLaren Traction engine so it could attend the Great Dorset Steam Fair, basically the guys over there lacked the competence (or perhaps the confidence) to do it, but were keen to have guidance of someone who did. Brother in law (who is a curator in the National Railway museum) and I, both engine owners did it for them, showed them how to lubricate it ect, not rocket science but it avoided scored beaings etc. After our guidance they took care of putting it back themselves. I also noticed when I was there that when they moved the old worm drive trucks in the collection they used roller skates under the rear wheels to avoid damaged axles. Very good. I did laugh however, on arrival we got the full induction, que all the bullsh1t, heritage insulation (asbestos) and all. I stood on the engine, opened the toolbox to see what was in it as we needed a tow pin (the one I brought with me was too thick) and found two loose asbestos boiler door joints. HA HA, that was nicely 'managed' many thanks!.

Tom You may enjoy this, not sure if youv'e seen it I like the bit where they are towing a Crossley tender with a foden de louser. Is that a 'tin lizzie' on the back of the Crossely?

I've not done any research into the WD specification yet, however it seems 1913 is a good date for Trailer No5. This is tha date Eagle Engineering superseeded Glovers of Warwick. Some pictures of the progress. Sandblasting found some proper thin metal and I'm in the process of replacing it We have also had it on its wheels for a look see. All the spring shackels and mounting brackets are new.

Steve, impulse mags are common on farm tractors, from the great war in age to just pre war. Could you make the impulse gubbins out of a tractor fit your mag? I suppose you could always fit a later mag. Tom, is that the same Albert Smith who has a rather nice Mann steam cart?

My Austin 7 will not start on old fuel. The last time I changed the engine (timing gears broke!) it was on the bench for 3 months. It wouldn't even try with the old fuel. I drained it (and put it in the Golf), with a fresh gallon she fired instantly. I think the higher fractions evaporate off, and it smells funny. The golf never missed a beat on it mind. I think the modern fuel is less stable than the old stuff, but it certainly burns hotter. Mixing it with something 'heavier', like oil, paraffin or DERV will lower the burn temp, and make it run cooler. With a mag you can adjust the timing manually for each mix, though the carburation is probably harder to adjust.

Tim, how does the worm and wheel like tow starts? I know lads with Fordsons (also worm and bronze wheel) tell me it is a no no for fear of buggering the wheel. I'm told a dash of engine oil lowers the fuel volatility, and can help. I had bother with my Austin 7 getting hot and vapourising the fuel. Fitting the correct carb solved the problem but the oil was going to be an option.

Here it is arriving. Pity you took the staff car back from Southport first, it would have been nice to been overtaken by the tender while driving the Foden.

I bet he is saying, ''bet this doesn't go as fast as the Crossley'' Well done to the Goslings for getting there, and for a top notch restoration. Whats next? the Thorny? or a Peerless?

That is thanks to Alan Duke and the Road Locomotive Society. We have a pretty full history to date, however 1916 to 1919 (the military) bit is the only gap. This is what it looked like when bought, though this is 1984 after 15years layup

The BE2864 registration is a Lincolnshire mark, it was common for the makers to register steamers upon sale, this is a Marshall, built in Gainsborough. Many Marshalls are BE registered for this reason. in 1920 sometime after this picture was taken, Arthur M Cole sold the machine to a man called Arthur Proctor who is recorded as a travelling showman in Derby. For whatever reason he re registered the machine CH2462 in the Derbyshire series, this was not that uncommon. It retains this number as you can see. We assume Arthur Proctor used it for hauling whatever show tackle he had, we do not believe it was ever a 'showmans engine' proper.

I know this is an old thread, but it is worth a punt. Below is a photo of Marshall 68754 at The Drove in Sleaford, Lincs in 1919 or 1920. The house behind is No 15 and still stands. The Marshall was new in 1915 to a haulier in Ipswich, fitted with aluminium boiler bands as a wartime economy measure! Sometime in 1916 it was comandeered for the war effort, and all trace of it vanishes untill 1919 when it appears for sale by Arthur M Cole, a well known machinery dealer in Sleaford, and this is in who's ownership the Marshall was when photographed. Notice the markings on the front tank. W arrow E? then some numbers. Has anyone ever seen a WE mark before?, and if so what does it mean? Any ideas. We assume the Marshall was used perhaps either for hauling hay, or baling it. Here it is, a little more recently parked on my drive for the daughters 2nd birthday party

Nice thing, could date anywhere from the teens to the '30's. At 11 foot long its a nice size too.

Fabulous. Congratulations all. What a super wagon.

Doug, what is the history of these great war period lorries in the antipodes?, are they war surplus like many over here?, or were they exported new there?, or perhaps both? If a J type was supplied new to a customer in Australia/New Zealand I guess it wouldn't have hooks, whearas a War surplus one would be likely to have them?. I guess to that it is likely that some lorries in the UK that were not part of the subsidy scheme were comandeered, were used by the War Office, then sold and no doubt some of these survive too.

The trailer is a Foster.

I recently borrowled the Road Locomotive Society Portfolio on 'Traction Wagons & Other Trailers' In it was a reference to a WD specification for trailers, the intimation was ones that were to be used behind road locomotives. There was some detal in terms of weights etc, but the document was not included nor any reference where to find it. Where would I need to look to find such a document? The hooks on the trailer are identical to the ones on Great war Truck's Dennis, from the pictures I see they are identical to the ones on the FWD at Duxford, so the hooks are at least certainly to WD spec.

I noticed some similar in some of your pics on the Dennis thread Plan is initially to get it on its wheels. Then take it from there as we may have spent more than its worth!. Still its better off with us than under a hedge. Progress so far:- Brakes sorted out (everything except the shoes was missing) Recognise the hubcap? The two Steven brought up are now on, the original two unmarked ones will go on the front. And progress in the last fortnight, a sand blasted chassis. There is a bit of rot, but 100mm channel is a pretty close fit to 4inch. It will likely get two new crossmenbers and some gusset plates in due course. We have also got 4 rubbers to fit on it, 4 tank idler wheels (£60 each!) will bore out to suit 670 wheels, the centres are pretty hard I'm told so we will need a Webster and Bennet vertical borer and carbide tip. We also need to find out what the interference fit should be so they are not loose.

Are the chassis hooks on the typical WW1 'Subsidy' lorry as a specific result of a WD specification? I've never really seen them on anything other than 'Subsidy' lorries. The reason I ask, I have a circa 1913 'Eagle' trailer. It also has hooks on the back. Could this be a WD trailer?, perhaps for use behind steam road locomotives etc?

We have polyurethane 'rubbers' on the front of my steam tractor. They are rings cut, opened out and bolted on as opposed to pressed on. They do not grip as well as rubber, and are harder, but they do the job. After 20years exposure to oil etc they have started to perish on the side surfaces. Still they'll do a few years yet.

Looks like it, thats Arnold Brooke/Stuart Gray's old Sentinel next door.

Its going to the Riverside rally in Southport under new ownership. 16-17 April. There was a rather nice Crossley there last year , also out Marshall. Its currenty having some TLC in a shed in Banks. It may even be in steam tommorrow. Hob nail boots are no good on a steamer, the manstand and steps ect are all steel plate, studded boots would soon have you in hospital with a broken leg! Richard, what a fabulous photo that lower one is!. I take it that the uniform would be Khaki? The wagons in the top photo are by Clayton & Shuttleworth.