cosrec

Lots of years ago we had A martian artilary tractor we used for recovery. When we first got it the winch was that tight that we had to use another wrecker to winch to get rope out (yes it was in Freewheel). We tried allsorts to free of drum pulling rope out and winching full length many times. We eventually tied the tensioners back and took the rope of completely and left the truck running all afternoon in third gear lubricating every so oftence. This made a lot better but still not good. then one of the lads who worked for us spotted a grease nipple on a casting assosiated with the shaft that went up with little gear on it that drove the main ring gear the dog clutch engage on to it. Sorry if this all sounds a little vague but was a long time ago. we greased this ran it up again for 10 min and it was perfect. Never had problems again. I think the scammell uses same winch? so might be problem is same place.

son spotted a vehcile on back of possibly a French lowloader with what he believes was either a pioneer or explorer. M18 s/b painted in white with possibly Recovery man in red wrote on it anybody on here ???. Said it looked all there but looked as though stored undercover for a long time

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To continue with the one down the slope if rigged as I described in drawing the secret to success is to get up close and work a little at a time. If casualty gets to point were it is getting close to winching vehicle stop let go and pull forward a little re rig have another go. It may take 2 or 3 attempts but you will end up with the lower front end wheel on or very near the top of the embankment. Also as you are not only pulling sideways but slightly forward the rear wheels should be a little higher up the embankment.. The whole vehicle will also be more stable. But still try not to be greedy and finish it of in one go with a long winch forward. As the vehicle is now more stable let go pull forward slightly and re rig again by now you will able to hang to somewhere of to the right hand side of vehicle and winch again your aim being to get the front end as far to left hand side of road as possible even to the point of putting the left hand front wheel over the gradient at the left hand side if that’s what it takes. The aim of all this a little bit at a time equal amounts forward and sideways at the same time is to end with at least one of the rear lower back wheels on or near the top of the embankment . From here it is just straight forward winches pull to get the whole vehicle back on to roadway. If you try pulling sideways to much it will probably defeat the winch vehicle and drag it sideways. Too much forward pull and at best casualty won’t climb. So once again a little bit at a time equal amounts to side and forward or at about 45 degrees. Winch only you can get some vehicles out of quite tricky places Not the best of pics but should show sort of angle to aim for

No problem and if you have any pictures etc that highlight any principles that help with safe recovery they will be welcomed on here by most people

I am a bit mystified now you want to describe how lifting the front of the truck is going to get back wheels of truck clear of floor working on example i have given not that i am knocking use of 750 its the ideal use for vehicle although not exactly as you describe. I have tried in all posts to try and use ways that available to members of this forum not many people on this forum will have access to a 750 as a HMV

Sorry i havnt made a better job of describing this job the scammell is parked a little ways in front of the casualty and recovering it. I was going to do another drawing to suggest the ideal angle for winch rope when viewed from above is 45 degrees.

Still trying to get vehicle back up slope, and on to narrow road. As you can see its still upright but will take very little to upset it. I would seriously be looking for something to the left of the road to held stabilise it a tractor a l/r or even a tirfor to a tree It will take very little to hold it. Any way on this occasion there is nothing but will have a go anyway. The vehicle we have to use for the recovery is a Crusader. I have put the crusader in the drawing and have drawn a line in blue representing the winch rope going to the front Nato hitch. You can see from this line it’s fairly high. The crusader is a fantastic piece of kit but even in its lowest position the winch still exits from the rear of the truck at about 51/2 ft from floor level. Most jobs this makes no difference but on this occasion if you look it is pulling at a steeper angle than that line I drew AB and this could be all that’s needed to upset the vehicle. To combat this I would put a snatch block in the rigging as shown in red. The snatch block isn’t there to increase power but to change direction of pull. As its pulling as shown the vehicle will now be fairly stable and you will be in with a good chance of recovering it trouble free at least enough to get lower wheel to near the top of bank. Now you may be wondering what the end of winch rope fastened to. I would wrap a chain round the box section of the leg furthest from the casualty and down and out underneath the spade before lowering the leg to the floor then fasten winch to this [ATTACH=CONFIG]40426[/ATTACH]

pretty much agree but this job and the rollover before it would only go ahead or be done under instruction from the person in charge of the bridge. Or at least it will if Japan is the same as this country. Bridge recovery work here is a nightmare when the bridge engineers get involved. Scotch blocks and rear spades are a no no when working on bridges

The guy gave his advise take it or leave but dont knock him for doing so

I have struggled a bit with this one trying to put into word’s what I am tying to get at. Here goes. Remember that empty truck I used as an example before well its ended up in the situation shown. I have put in where I think the CG is. And drawn a line through the CG parallel with the truck body marked a b and one vertical through the CG. This has marked out four quadrants. The object is to get the vehicle back on to the raised section of road. We do this by fastening on to the vehicle somewhere and winching or lifting to the left. In quadrants 1 and 2 any angle made by the winch rope must be less than that the angle of a b otherwise it will have the undesirable effect of lifting the vehicle over the wrong way. If fastened to something in quadrant 1 and winching this will have the effect of taking weight off the lower wheels which is good but do very little towards sledging the vehicle up the slope. Quadrant 2 will take weight off the lower wheels plus put a lot of energy into pulling it back up the slope. Quadrant 3 is ok for straight lifting as long as it’s vertical or tending towards the line through the CG. Quadrant 4 angles made by winch ropes for lifting must leave the quadrant above CG or it will tip the vehicle on its side any large pulls directly sideways in this area will only pull lower wheels harder into slope. So to do this job with a winch it’s looking like we will have to hang on to something in area 2 [ATTACH=CONFIG]40309[/ATTACH]

Right you have a vehicle which is laid at an acute angle for what ever reason gone off the road. In a dyke or even on level ground but bogged at one side. Undamaged. To make it worse you have limited room to work e.g. a narrow road usually parallel with the vehicle. To me it is more challenging than a straight forward bogged or rolled vehicle. Why because there is so much more chance of something going wrong and ending up with a bigger mess to sort out. Sure time to get out and have a good walk round and think before reaching for shackles or chains or pulling winch ropes out. The first point to look out for is our good old friend (enemy) CG where is it. As I pointed before its bad to tell exactly and it’s up to who is in charge of the operation to make an executive guess on this one. Plus get an executive upping if it goes wrong. Only advice I can give here is CG still acting between the outsides of its wheels (or tracks) else it would have fallen over. In your favour it takes little force to keep it there. Plus when a vehicle is laid at an angle it isn’t always as bad as you think. (Done a few demos and most vehicles really have to be pulled a long way before they fall over) Been caught out as well Next which general direction does it need to go? Not as easy as you think to decide why because pulling it the obvious direction may just pull it into softer ground or put it on a steeper slope or hit a road side grip all of which may just put that CG out side them outer edges. If it’s in long grass nettles or shrubs get in among them have a kick about don’t assume there’s nothing there that’s going to fetch the whole operation to a halt or tip the vehicle over as its winched. If the road is a narrow farm track you may find you can’t get past thus you have no choice in which direction you take the vehicle. So direction sorted next choice exactly what angle does it have to go at and how do you get it to go that way. Next what do i fasten to because this effects its direction of travel All I can say is if I have a choice and it’s a rigid vehicle I prefer the back end will explain in later post . One other thing i dont know why but these sort of incedents seem to attract a lot of well meaning experts who seem to throw your train of thought out of sync So theres a lot to think about before you actually start. There is of course the other approach that I set of with many years ago the 4 Ps Pile in Pull It out Park it up Pray no one sees the damage

Were we live is mainly a rural area so the bulk of our challenging every day jobs are not vehicles bogged up to the nuts or rollovers but simply vehicles that have got too near the edge of the road and run off or the road has given way. This presents three sets of problems. One the shear physical force to get them moving again we have already covered all this with the calculations so we know what we are up against the only difference being its usually only one side set of wheels that’s stuck Two the vehicle is leaning at a big angle and likely to become a rollover at any moment. Three and this is sods law at play its always down a very narrow raised road to a farm with a fully loaded bulker or the rep with his £70,000 vogue balancing on the edge of 12ft commissioner dyke and guess what there is no room to work.. Don’t know all the answers but will describe what I think is the basic theory behind it all if any body is interested. Also it may seem different but it is exactly the same as some video clips as I have commented upon like this one Something went wrong...

Daft thing is that is exactly what we do and advise our drivers to do, But only on the unit. The trailer and remember we are usually talking modern vehicles here we just take the red line off and rely on the spring brakes to hold it. We do this for good reason when i explained how an artic comes over its allways the unit that hits the deck first because the unit is free to move some of the shock is taken out of the trailer hitting the deck. Then it is simply a case of coupling up to trailer airlines before towing away. The unit is not being braked while towing for legal reasons

first i have heard or read about the man absolutly facinating

Might also be worth just checking on this page to make sure it is actually a Holmes Crane Same site also details some of the equipment carried http://www.amv-lilliput.org/MODELLI/Docum/CMP%20WRECK/CMPWRECK_ENG.htm

May be worth contacting International Towing and Recovery Hall of Fame and Museum 3315 Broad Street Chattanooga, TN 37408-3052 423-267-3132 For questions or comments about the museum, contact : Cheryl Mish - internationaltowingmuseum@comcast.net I have never been but i believe it is built on the old Holmes factory and i think they inherited a lot of photos and records. Given a model no they should be able to tell you what equipment was shipped that body. The CMPS i dont know about but the 969 DT had its recovery eqipment fitted to the chassis at this factory and shipped as a finished unit from there. Even today the Miller Corp who bought Holmes ship thier recovery/bodies eqipment fully kitted out ready to work when installed

dont know for sure but guessing two snatch blocks per line was norm for all holmes eqipument post war

in my own defence i think both these cock ups happened for the same reason no Brakes applied

Bit of humble pie here i will add fire engines to .the above list

worth keeping an eye on him and following about though. Plenty of transporter jobs to mop up when he has done his stuff

Undramatic Unphotogenic but spot on recovery thats how it should be no ramming about no wheels spinng just nice controlled safe work with no further damage to casualty or equipment used. Envy many times wished i had had that amount of brute power available

Good sound advise Only things i would add is i dont know for sure what the vehicle doing the winching is but it looks fairlly big and has the winch capacity. So if possible i would have taken it a lot nearer the casualty. the winch is mounted high up and i guess a situation could have been achieved where the winch rope would have gone to the casualty with out hitting the bank. With my civillian head on i would have used the hook bridle i posted earlier i would have hooked on to the front suspension mounting pionts thus providing more lift. Lastly i would have asked the driver to stop trying to drive forward all this was doing was introducing shock loads to the rigging and the winch was coping with out him

while watching above clips noticed this one anybody any got any views on what went wrong and what it has in common with the above clip where something snapped. More important what could have been done to avoid it. By the way not not knocking use of ural it seemed to do a good job Having said that it all looks a bit tame if you watch this clip sure says a lot for urals

looks like that would be a bitch to sort our recovery wisejust noticed those are two different tanks or at least same tank in different place