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What oil types are best


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Got to get hold of some oil before collecting the Stalwart in a couple of weeks time and the biggest usage is of OMD-75 and OEP-220. OMD-75 is straight SAE-30 oil so no problem there. However OEP-220 is an EP-90 oil available, if I understand things correctly, in GL-4 and GL-5 types. Is this correct and if so - which is nearest to the Mil-Spec, 4 or 5???

 

Lastly - for the Central Lube system it's recommended to add about 6 pints (roughly 4 litres) of OX-320 - a graphite compound that helps with the tracta joints etc.

One source I've been told of is Achesons "OilDag" at about £18 for 1 litre/1 Kg or £184 for 20 litres/20 Kg. Any one here know of - hopefully cheaper & easier to get - alternatives to this????

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Neil,

 

OEP 220 is specified by military as 80w/90EP or 90EP, no reference to the GL number in the Defence Standards that I have. Think in a Stalwart there is no problem with yellow metals, so a standard 90EP should be OK. DEFSTAN states that 220 is not suitable for use in systems with copper alloy bearings, so as it is the specified oil, should be no problem there.

 

OMD 75 is not a straight SAE30 oil, it was specified as a 10w/30 diesel oil, later superceded by OMD80, which is to API performance classification CD/SE. It is often stated on a certain forum relating to these vehicles that they must have SAE30 in them, because RR said so. Well I was working on vehicles with these engines in REME workshops for many years, and only these multigrades were used and specified. The confusion often comes from old manuals, that have not been amended with the later lubricants. Originally it was OMD110 (superceded in the very early 1970's by OMD75) in the engine, a SAE30, as RR recommended at the time, but they did not bother to amend there spec. when multigrades were introduced, unlike other engine manufacturers. Most RR B range engines in use today would have spent there life on multigrades, so to revert now, to a monograde would be of little benefit.

 

You may find a surplus dealer who has some OX320, it was often supplied in 1 pint cans, we knew it as Achesons Colloidal Graphite. I remember reading a report of a trial using this mix in the hubs of Alvis FV600 series and both Alvis and MVEE decided it was of little advantage as tracta joints were still siezing with or without it, so we stopped using it. It is entirelly your choice to use it of course.

 

Hope this all makes sense!

 

Richard

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...................and beware of using a GL5 spec oil in a GL4 spec'd application. GL5 is not backwards compatible to GL4.

 

GL5 contains a sulphur content and is not user friendly to Yellow Metal parts. GL4 is far more friendly in this application. The "lube" bits in the oil make up is the same, but the chemical content is not.

 

I suggest you determine the actual spec you need i.e. GL4 or GL5 , and/or go to Castrol Tech Dept with the Mil No for advice, and availability.

 

http://www.castrol.com/castrol/castrolglobalhomepage.do?categoryId=3225&contentId=6005575

 

 

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Thanks to both of you!!!!

 

A good quality 10W/30 diesel engine oild will be OK to use then

 

Karoshi, extracted from the POL guide in Clives Corner OEP-22 is stated as:

 

Gear Oil. SAE 90. Automotive hypoid gear units, heavy duty industrial enclosed gear units, steering gears, fluid lubricated universal joints, automotive equipment. May not be suitable in systems containing bronze or other copper alloys. (ES=O226)

Specification = CS3000B

 

I deduce from this that the GL-5 is the closer of the two to OEP-220, however if there is no difference to the lubricating properties - would it make any difference to use the GL-4 instead??

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Hi Neil

Have a look at Morris Lubricants site, lots of info there and they are very helpful if you need to contact them, I have used lots of different products from them over many years and always found them to be very satisfactory. Their prices are usually very competitive and they will be able to tell you who your local stockist is.

 

 

Cheers

Degsy

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Thanks Desy - I've e-mailed a Mike McGreevy from Morris askin what product they recommend, the price and where I can buy it from.

Also sent the same mail to Catols "Classic Oil" department to see what they say. Wonder who will reply first?? :-) :-) :-) :-)

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Thanks to both of you!!!!

 

A good quality 10W/30 diesel engine oil will be OK to use then

 

Karoshi, extracted from the POL guide in Clives Corner OEP-22 is stated as:

 

Gear Oil. SAE 90. Automotive hypoid gear units, heavy duty industrial enclosed gear units, steering gears, fluid lubricated universal joints, automotive equipment. May not be suitable in systems containing bronze or other copper alloys. (ES=O226)

Specification = CS3000B

 

 

Be wise to the difference between EP 90 and SAE 90. They both have the same viscosity, but in a HYPOID application where shear loadings are dramatically higher Sulpur based additives help. The sulphur however has the action of corroding yellow metal fittings.

 

Many years ago car differentials did not have hypoid alignment, and an SAE oil rating was adequate, when cars became more advanced and "streamlined" and ride height conscious, it was found that by lowering the pinion gear to align with the axis of the axle allowed the car to sit lower offering several advantages. The downside was that the gear relationship (HYPOID) demanded a better quality lubricant because of the higher loadings. The standard SAE oils were thus loaded with minerals that became active under pressure. The "screw" type operation activating the sulphur in the high contact, high load areas. Hypoid oil as born, but to confuse everybody it continued to carry the SAE rating.

 

The IMPORTANT bit is the EP prefix. EP oils are bolstered with additives, these additives (mainly sulphur) can affect older gear boxes and differentials (and winch drives) which were frequently made using yellow metal buses and dogs.

 

A GL rated oil can come in a number of flavours, GL4 whatever its working number is aligned to a STRAIGHT oil, with no additives. A GL5 oil is bolstered with additives, and may be purchased in a number of flavours also.

 

Have a careful look at the manual, if you application has ANY yellow metal bushes or thrust washers or bearings you are better off with a GL4 rated oil. The GL5 oils will pit the yellow metal surfaces over time and lead to premature failure.

 

Karoshi

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Neil,

 

just to add a little to all the good advice given here, The Stalwart gears oil is given as OEP-220, that is Oil, Extreme Pressure, thus it is an EP90, or EP80w/90. In the DEFSTAN specification book on lubricants, as I already quoted, this oil is not suitable where copper alloy bearings are used. If copper alloys were in the gear boxes, then 220 would not b specified. So to draw a conclusion, that it is a GL4 oil, but you could use GL5 if need be.

 

Just as an aside, as Karoshi brought it up, re. SAE90 and EP90, in a jeep gearbox there are bronze bushes and thrusts, so EP90 should not be used, also the extreme pressure qualities of EP90 affect the correct operation of the synchro cones leading to crunchy gear changes. Morris oils do a Straight SAE90 gear oil that works well in jeep boxes.

 

Richard

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I'm certainly stupid :?

If i understand this thread then the Castrol EP80w-90 I have been using for years is effectively OEP220 and suitable for most applications.

 

But if something is listed as straight EP90 (which is what other gear oils particulalry own brand stuff is shown as) would it make much difference over an 80w90 provided BOTH were GL4?

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Well - Castrol beat Morris to the reply - but thats as far as it goes.

 

I contacted the name given for technical queries asking which of their products would equate to OMD-75 or -110 and OEP-220. Gave him the specifications from Clives sheet and this is the response:

 

I have no x-reference for MOD codes, Give Castrol Consumer Tech Dept a ring on 01793 452222

 

Lets hope Morris do better!!!!!!!! :roll: :roll: :roll:

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Well - Castrol beat Morris to the reply - but thats as far as it goes.

 

 

 

Neil,

 

If that was Classic Castrol, probably lucky you did draw a blank. They are very expensive oil, you pay for the nostalgic Castrol containers! Best call that number they gave you for Castrol themselves.

 

I once had a phonecall form Classic Castrol, someone must have given them my number, they wanted to decipher an Army oil grade for a customer with an ex-WD Matchless. My preference is Morris Lubricants, the area distribution depot used to be in the same premises as my workshop, so got to know what their range was.

 

Richard

Richard

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But if something is listed as straight EP90 (which is what other gear oils particulalry own brand stuff is shown as) would it make much difference over an 80w90 provided BOTH were GL4?

 

 

Straight gear oils are not EP or Hypoid grades. A Straight 90 for instance, would be used where the extreme pressure additives are not required, nor welcome, such as a synchromesh gearbox. The 80w/90 grade is a multigrade suitable for use in varying temperatures, same as multigrade engine oils are specified for. They are basically an alternative. My 1963 copy of military lubricant standards, lists OEP220 as EP90 but a more up to date edition has it as EP80w/90, just a modern alternative.

 

Richard

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So you rang 01793 452222 .....and they said????

 

You did ring Didn't You?

 

 

Not yet - didn't think the department would be open at that time so I intend giving them a ring tomorrow from work.

 

:?I hope you have better luck than me I tried two weeks ago and am still waiting a reply

 

Who was that with - Castrol or Morris????

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Thanks Lee!!

 

Had some good and not so good news today.

Not so good is that Castrol never answer thir phones

Good is that Morris rung me back with the following info:

 

OMD-110 - Straight SAE-30 required by the Stalwarts gearbox = Morris's Supreme 30 @ £2.00/Litre code is SUP-25

 

OEP-220 - EP90 gear oil = Morris's Lodexsol 80W90 @£1.98/Litre - code is EPE-025

 

OM-13 - Hydraulic Oil = Morris's Liquimatic No. 2 @ £1.50/Litre - code is LIT-025

 

XG-279 - waterproof grease - Morris's K323 @£71.00/ 12.5 Kg cake :? - code is PBG-075

 

OC-320 - Colloidal Graphite Compound = No equivalent, Achesons Oildag seems to be it.

 

And the best bit is - their local stockist is:

 

Jet Factors

5 Hewett Road

Dagenham

Tel 020 85176432

 

Only a mile or two from where I live!!!

 

Waiting for Jet to ring back with prices - will update this post when I get this info.

 

Typical - hit "post" and THEN the phone rings :-) Prices inserted above in Red.

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Neil £2 per litre seems a bit high for Supreme 30. I know prices have risen and it is a while since our last delivery but we were paying less than £1 per litre in 25 litre drums.

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Neil £2 per litre seems a bit high for Supreme 30. I know prices have risen and it is a while since our last delivery but we were paying less than £1 per litre in 25 litre drums.

 

 

Thats the price from their agent in Dagenham!! £2/litre irrespective of quantity.

Don't know if I cold have got it cheaper from another agent further away - however then the law of diminishing returns kicks in and the lower cost of the oil would have to be offset againt the cost of the fuel in getting there. No to mention grief of the ear-hole from the missus 'cos I've nicked her car to go and get it....

 

Right now I'd been advised to get hold of these two oils for the journey home the week after next - this I've now done and, hopefully, should have enough there to last a little while!! Next time I'll do a bit more phoning around and see whether that £2/litre is a general price or just from this particular agent. :-)

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