Militant recovery kit

[ArtistsRifles]

Anyone here into Militant Recovery vehicles from the 60's/70's or know some one that is???

 

Reason for asking is I'm told part of the kit on the Militant was a set of special adapters for the middle wheel stations on a Stalwart that allowed them to be towed rather than needing a flatbed of some sort. As you can imagine one of the nightmare scenarios for the prospective Stalwart owner is that of having to be recovered as they cannot normally be towed for anything other than "short distances" without serious work in dismantling the rear wheel stations (see below).

 

So - if the Militant recoverys did have this kit then either getting a set of drawings or possibly borrowing it and getting it copied plus the usage instructions could be a life-saver!!!!

 

These are the comments from Richard, the guru on Stalwarts here in the uk:

Refer to User Handbook Army No. 22156 page 99.

 

"Vehicle may be towed over short distances without being suspended provided the transfer box is in neutral and there is no final drive or transfer box failure."

 

Note when towing there is no transfer box lubrication as it takes its oil pump drive from the gearbox input shaft and this will be stationary.

 

If you flat tow you can be assured the steering will not follow the towing vehicle owing to the resistance of the steering and spherical housings, plus the effectively locked hydraulics in the steering rack.

 

On a suspended tow the raised front and centre wheels WILL continue to rotate and again there will be no transfer box oil feed. This is only done after rear reduction hub strip-out to remove the sun gears and thus the drive to the rest of the transmission. The hub casings will have to be removed to do this with the loss of the hub gear oil and whatever remains in the central lube system too.

 

Putting the sun gears back after hub case removal with the essential synchronisation of the planet gears by their spark eroded "timing" marks, is a fairly intense job.

[Richard Farrant]

Anyone here into Militant Recovery vehicles from the 60's/70's or know some one that is???

 

Reason for asking is I'm told part of the kit on the Militant was a set of special adapters for the middle wheel stations on a Stalwart that allowed them to be towed rather than needing a flatbed of some sort. As you can imagine one of the nightmare scenarios for the prospective Stalwart owner is that of having to be recovered as they cannot normally be towed for anything other than "short distances" without serious work in dismantling the rear wheel stations (see below).

 

 

 

Neil,

 

Someone is giving you duff misleading info here. I worked on all this sort of vehicles, in a REME wksp, from 1974 on, we also had an AEC Medium recovery. If you are going to do a suspended tow on a Stalwart, Saracen, Saladin, the front and centre wheels will be off the ground. As it is illegal for the suspended wheels to rotate, the sun wheel has to be removed from the rear hubs. There is no magic tool or adaptor for this situation, there is no other way to break the drive to the rear hubs. Recovering these vehicles by suspended is not the best way, using a recovery trailer saves all the work and time involved. To confirm this, I have just spoken to my mate who I worked with there, and as well as being a fitter, he also was on the recovery team with the AEC and he assures me that I am correct in this.

 

Richard

[ArtistsRifles]

Damn!!!!!!!!!!

 

Thanks for this Richard - I was getting my hopes up for a minute there...

I've got to admit the thought of a recovery being required is the biggest nightmare I have because of the no-towing situation so when that was suggested I thought "YES!!!"

 

Oh well - back to the worrying

[Richard Farrant]

Neil,

 

After replying last night, a thought has occured. This piece of recovery kit may have been solely to keep the suspension for centre wheels semi compressed. Reason being, when you lift the front, the centre wheels barely clear the ground because of the suspension dropping. The answer always was to remove the centre wheels if a suspended lift was neccessary. Knowing Recy Mechs, they would always find a way of making jobs easier, so no doubt someone devise a method to hold the wheels up.

 

Richard

[ArtistsRifles]

Could be Richard.

 

I'd assumed - erroneously as usual - that there might have been something that bolted to the centre hubs with a seperate wheel bearing such that the part on the wheel station was fixed and the outer section was free to turn and had the wheels remounted to that, the rear wheels then being removed for the tow... Thinking about it, though, that would have put the rear of the hull dangerously close to the ground....

 

You're right about the suspension droop -especially as on most in private hands the suspension is cranked down so that the shafts are almost horizontal reducing the ground clearance - there is still much to be learnt about these beasties. Hopefully not the wrong way though

[Richard Farrant]

Neil,

 

I have since seen your messages on the Stalwart forum and I do believe that someone has led you to believe that there is a piece of kit that is carried on the Recovery and eliminates the need to strip the rear hub when carrying out a suspended tow.

 

To just confirm my previous thoughts on this, I have found a copy of recovery vehicle data from the Recy Mech course. This is relating to Saracen, but there is no difference in the procedure;

 

SUSPEND TOW

Isolate the drive and transmission from the rolling wheels to prevent unnecessary damage.

a. Remove centre road wheels to ensure adequate ground clearance.

b. Drain oil ( and save) of the hubs of two road wheels on which vehicle is going to roll.

c. Withdraw split pins and remove five hub cap securing nuts and washers.

d. Untab and remove the serrated tracta shaft nut and lock washers.

e. Remove the eight nuts and washers securing the hub reduction gear housing.

f. With hub puller, remove hub reduction gear housing.

g. Remove the distance washers between the ball bearing inner race and sun gear, and remove the sun gear.

NOTE: Retain the sun gear and washers and identify them with their respective hub for future assembly.

h. For towing purposes, reassemble in reverse order as detailed in paras f to b.

j. Refill hubs using oil previously drained off. Top up is necessary.

 

 

It would appear that the mystery item of kit on the wrecker would be the Alvis hub puller. It is not listed on the AEC kit list but if the Recovery crew supported a unit with Alvis FV600 vehicles it would no doubt have been carried.

 

Richard

[ArtistsRifles]

Thanks again Richard - this is now printed off and stored in the "Lessons Learnt " folder!!!

 

Just learnt that a friend of ours from the caravanning scene worked on them for 6 years so there's another source of useful info to tap

[MilitantGraham]

I've got most of the publications relating to the AEC Militant Recovery and have never heard of a special tool carried for the Alvis 600 range.

It is a common practice for civilian recovery drivers to chain up a damaged axle to keep it clear of the ground when towing a 6 or 8 wheel lorry though. As Kewelde says, I would imagine a REME recovery driver would do the same to avoid having to remove and stow two 14.00/20 wheels and tyres.

Specific recovery data for all British military vehicles in service in 1986 is included in REME Recovery Manual available for download at http://www.aecmilitant.co.uk/downloads/recoverymanual.pdf For the Stalwart it says "Remove sunwheels from hubs of wheels in contact with the ground"

[smudge]

the "stolly "was invariably recovered on the rubery owen 10/15 ton trailer the suspend was only used for very short tows ie:to

remove from the highway i think 5 miles was the max as for the centre wheels - on the inner end of the bottom suspension link a bolt was placed front to rear in the "VEE" formed by the suspension lower arm and the mounting bracket the effect was to prevent the suspension from fully dropping !---this held the wheel clear of the ground ---ie: as the wheel was lifted the bolt was pinched in the suspension and the arm could not fully drop ---ok on tarmac but no good off road as the first bump the wheels hit would cause the bolt to drop out ------the saracen /saladin was much the same i believe as the chassis was a similar layout suspension wise

[Grumpy]

Not in the recovery handbooks, but the Stolly manuals call for a special spacer to be installed when removing the sun gears for suspended tow. Never met a recovery mech who has used them. It only takes about 10 mins per side to remove the sun gears and usual practice to hang them from the mirror arms so each is kept to the correct side (not interchangeable). Refitting the sun gears takes a little longer and you need the gagging tool, but would still only be about 15 mins per side.

 

Have a chat with Mark Chapman think he has the drawings for the spacers.

[ChasSomT.]

Re: Smudge's post (No.9)

I was crewman on a Saladin returning to Rotterdam after a BAOR excercise (1975?) when we had a puncture on the

 

centre left wheel. Our LAD lads removed the wheel, chucked it on the rear engine decks, and jacked up the hub and put

 

I think (may be wrong) two of the wheel nuts 'in the suspension' to raise the hub further from the road.

 

(It still hung down pretty low, though!) I have a 'photo somewhere - don't hold your breath.

 

'Chas.'