Help! RE: Landrover 101

[ferretfixer]

 

Assistance Advice Requested

 

Hi Guys, Now it's MY time to ask for help! :flowers:

 

Can anyone explain for me please, how do you go about changing the camshaft on a 101 Landy?

Are there any potential pitfalls, do I need to know anything special about adjustment of the tappets? Any help would be most appriciated.

I have NEVER changed, or had anything to do with overhead camshafted vehicles.

All my expierinece has been with convetional petrol engines or Diesel & K60 packs.

Thank you in advance for your kind assistance with this request.

MIKE :tup::

 

 

[Stormin]

If your changing the Cam shaft you'll want to be changing the hydraulic followers (tappets) as well or you'll quickly ruin your new cam.

I've only done mine with the engine out for a full overhaul,but it shouldn't be to hard in situ, once radiator is removed. Obviously inlet manifold, timing cover and water pump have to be removed as well.

The camshaft follower pre-load has to be set within a certain range which is the tricky bit by constant measuring then shimming under the rocker posts.

Explained here: http://www.v8engines.com/engine-4.htm#pre-load

 

May as well change timing chain and sprockets whilst your at it, there cheap and wear badly due to lack of oil, causing backlash in the timing.

[sean101ryan]

As Norman says, radiator out and it's then same proceedure as any Rover V8. You should go for a full cam kit inc followers, sprockets etc, not that expensive.

 

There's loads of advice on these engines out there, do a google and you shouldn't need a manual although there is a specific 101 manual and parts book.

 

If you need some of the rare spares for a 101 you have to join the 101 club to get access to their extensive spares list.

[Stormin]

Forgot to add that rocker shafts should also be renewed. These tend to wear bady on the bottom. If they've been messed about with and turned over expect the worst allround.

 

Rockers should also be replaced along with the shaft as worn shaft metal embeds itself into the soft inner bearing material of the rockers then wears your new shaft away quickly.

 

All these extra soon start to add up and it get's difficult to know were to stop. Valves, guides, head skim, all next down the list, but if your going to the trouble of doing it, it's worth doing it properly.

[Grasshopper]

I can confirm that new followers make a big difference.

[ferretfixer]

If your changing the Cam shaft you'll want to be changing the hydraulic followers (tappets) as well or you'll quickly ruin your new cam.

I've only done mine with the engine out for a full overhaul,but it shouldn't be to hard in situ, once radiator is removed. Obviously inlet manifold, timing cover and water pump have to be removed as well.

The camshaft follower pre-load has to be set within a certain range which is the tricky bit by constant measuring then shimming under the rocker posts.

Explained here: http://www.v8engines.com/engine-4.htm#pre-load

 

May as well change timing chain and sprockets whilst your at it, there cheap and wear badly due to lack of oil, causing backlash in the timing.

Thanks Norman, I will have to tackle mine in situ then!

It gets worse the more you look into this project! :???

A big thank you to all who took the trouble to answer my request.

Bottom line is: I have a manuel in the post & will have to read & digest!

Not looking forward to doing this one, I must say!

I assume from all the posts, that engine spares for the 101 are the same as for any 'Normal' Rover V8? I understand that other items Body Trans G/Box Etc are specific to the 1 Tonne only, obviously.

You know what it's like if you are about to go into Territory 'Technical' that you have never encountered before! :shake:

 

Once again, A Hesitant & slightly worried... Thank you Guys! :tup::

 

Mike. :help: :wave:

[Stormin]

I assume from all the posts, that engine spares for the 101 are the same as for any 'Normal' Rover V8? I understand that other items Body Trans G/Box Etc are specific to the 1 Tonne only, obviously.

 

A friend once told me that Rover made 200 variations of the V8 over it's lifetime. A lot of parts from other variants will fit.

If it's a genuine unmessed with 101 engine, it'll be very low compression (8:1), small valves and small oil pump gears. The engine is basically a Rover P6, specification. When the SD1 was introduced in 1976, compression was raised, valve sizes increased and oil pump up-rated. As far as I know all 101's were built with the P6 style engine.

Gearbox, clutch and transfer box are common to early (pre 1983) Range Rover. The 101 has lower ratio gears in transfer case which are easily swapped with Range Rover, for speed and economy improvements, though a better solution is the fitment of an overdrive if you can find one.

[sean101ryan]

Gearbox has a shorter bellhousing and input shaft then rangie but it is easily swapped over. My gearbox has just died, probably the tbox intermediate shaft bearings melting, so am tossing up between a recon military box from Nick Kaye (NK Recovery) or an old Rangie box that's at least 25 years old and loads of miles!

 

An overdrive makes them more relaxing to drive but are hard to find (I have one fitted) so the high ratio gear conversion is more common.

 

When you start adding up the costs of sorting the engine, a carbed 3.9 out of a Disco looks atractive! Some owners have fitted bigger efi's but this involves messing with the gear linkage to clear the plenum chamber.

 

Pretty everything else on the vehicle is unique, the parts book indicates which. You can get around this with substitute or modified parts but the club has an extensive range of remanufactured parts as well.

[Paul101Clark]

Don't forget to replace or put the head bolts in oil or you will get air embrittlement on the bolts and they will fail.

 

 

Paul.

[ferretfixer]

:bow:

A friend once told me that Rover made 200 variations of the V8 over it's lifetime. A lot of parts from other variants will fit.

If it's a genuine unmessed with 101 engine, it'll be very low compression (8:1), small valves and small oil pump gears. The engine is basically a Rover P6, specification. When the SD1 was introduced in 1976, compression was raised, valve sizes increased and oil pump up-rated. As far as I know all 101's were built with the P6 style engine.

Gearbox, clutch and transfer box are common to early (pre 1983) Range Rover. The 101 has lower ratio gears in transfer case which are easily swapped with Range Rover, for speed and economy improvements, though a better solution is the fitment of an overdrive if you can find one.

 

Norman & Sean, thanks again for your input. It's a lot to think about!

I think this is going to go a LOT slower than I had anticipated! :wow:

My Parts book arrived today, it gives me an idea of what Im looking at. (I think!) & im awaiting the workshop manual, hopefully tommorow! :thumbsup:

:readbook:

I am certainly NOT feeling confident about it, I can tell you!

Pity it's not a Weapon, I would have a Blindfold on & know what I was doing! :banana: Cheers Guys: :bow:

[ferretfixer]

Don't forget to replace or put the head bolts in oil or you will get air embrittlement on the bolts and they will fail.

 

 

Paul.

 

Hi Paul, Point noted But, Call me stupid, BUT. I was under the impression I didnt need to remove either cyl head? :confused: Just replacing the camshaft, rockers, rocker shafts & timing chain & two cogs?

See, I told you I had never worked on a V8 before! :red:

 

When you say 'Headbolts in oil'. did you mean cold dipped or heat till cherry red & quench in the oil ? :???

 

Mike.

[Stormin]

No need to remove head bolts to remove cam or rockers.

 

Got to admit I've never heard of the air embrittlement case before. It's not like the bolts are in an air tight environment when installed so I don't see how they can be affected for the short time they'll be out of the engine.

[rbrtcrowther]

Hi there,

 

Pretty sure when we had the heads off the father inlaws 101 the book said to put the head bolts in oil because of some kind of locktight stuff on the threads that hardens and is a sod to get off.

[Stormin]

Hi there,

 

Pretty sure when we had the heads off the father inlaws 101 the book said to put the head bolts in oil because of some kind of locktight stuff on the threads that hardens and is a sod to get off.

 

Locktite generally goes off once not in the presence of air. I.E. when the bolt is fully tightened in a blind hole.

[Stormin]

Just checked in the manual and here it is:

 

"NOTE:

On stripping an engine the cylinder head bolts should immediately be wire brush washed in 3M Solvent No. 2, manufactured by The 3M Company Ltd, 3M House, Wigmore Street, London W1A 1ET and availbale through normal trade channels in the British Isles and overseas. It is not available from Rover Parts Dept.

If the bolts cannot be cleaned immediately, it is essential that they be stored in a bath of trichlor-ethylene, petrol or paraffin etc., which may also be used as a cleaner if 3M Solvent No. 2 is not available, otherwise the sealant used on previous assembly will tend to air harden, making subsequent removal very difficult.

After four re-assembly operations renew all bolts. When re-assembling at any time, renew all bolts if more than two bolts exhibit evidence of elongation. If one or two bolts are elongated they must be replaced."

[ferretfixer]

No need to remove head bolts to remove cam or rockers.

 

Got to admit I've never heard of the air embrittlement case before. It's not like the bolts are in an air tight environment when installed so I don't see how they can be affected for the short time they'll be out of the engine.

 

Yes, I was sure I didnt need to remove the heads.

What the post was concerning bolts would be slightly pertinant to cylinder head bolts on a Steel/ cast Iron block. IE: Renew all head bolts because they would have stretched with original torquing up & expansion /contraction of engine heat. Normal practice I would have thought?

It now becomes clear with regards to why they need cleaning upon removal,on the Rover V8. not that this area would affect my teardown procedure level.

But good to know info! :tup::

[ArtistsRifles]

Don't worry too much about the actual work Mike, The old P6 era lump wasn't too bad to work on - I had a few of them over the years and worked on all of of them. If taking the inlet manifold off don't forget to check the condition of the core plug under the carbs. IIRC the biggest aggro on the 101 is lack of space around it but if you take it slow and easy all will be well.

[rbrtcrowther]

Just checked in the manual and here it is:

 

"NOTE:

On stripping an engine the cylinder head bolts should immediately be wire brush washed in 3M Solvent No. 2, manufactured by The 3M Company Ltd, 3M House, Wigmore Street, London W1A 1ET and availbale through normal trade channels in the British Isles and overseas. It is not available from Rover Parts Dept.

If the bolts cannot be cleaned immediately, it is essential that they be stored in a bath of trichlor-ethylene, petrol or paraffin etc., which may also be used as a cleaner if 3M Solvent No. 2 is not available, otherwise the sealant used on previous assembly will tend to air harden, making subsequent removal very difficult.

After four re-assembly operations renew all bolts. When re-assembling at any time, renew all bolts if more than two bolts exhibit evidence of elongation. If one or two bolts are elongated they must be replaced."

 

 

Ahem....:coffee:

[ferretfixer]

Don't worry too much about the actual work Mike, The old P6 era lump wasn't too bad to work on - I had a few of them over the years and worked on all of of them. If taking the inlet manifold off don't forget to check the condition of the core plug under the carbs. IIRC the biggest aggro on the 101 is lack of space around it but if you take it slow and easy all will be well.

 

cheers Neil, well,.........The more I look into this project. The more it's starting to add up! :cry: There are other small, but significant 'issues' with this vehicle. I am SERIOUSLY considering going for another 1 Tonne! :-\

Add it all up & add some extra dosh in & it will be about the same as a decent runner. Do I REALLY need the agro with my Time constraints? :shocked:

I geuinely feel a better vehicle could be had for just a little more cash in the deal! I think that is the route I will be taking.:sweat:

But, a big thank you to all who contributed to my questions. :bow:

[Paul101Clark]

Woops blonde moment

[Guest catweazle (Banned Member)]

I read with interest the comments about the head bolts,i have never seen the residue from any sealent on head bolts since 1974.Later bolts are streatch and we allways change them,more to cover our asre than anything else,We have left them before now when the owner cant afford new ones and have got away with it on more than one occasion.The early bolts were not streatch and unless obviously stressed would be used time again.New bolts threads and under the head of the bolt should have a thin smear of oil to aid assembly.We have had new streatch bolts brake whilst fitting and its usually one of the last ones.:argh:cw