Silenced L34A1 SMG

[ArtistsRifles]

This has been driving me nuts of late. Whenever I see a silenced SMG either on a stall at a show or in pictures it is shown as having wooden grips on the barrel. Now - these things were the drill weapon of necessity in 21 for the few times ceremonial drill was ever performed (e.g. The Royal Academy Opening) and I never saw any fitted with wood on the barrel. Anyways - doing a quick nose through evilbay tonight I came across this:

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/RPC-Modern-British-Army-Sterling-L34A1-Carbine_W0QQitemZ350173609155QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item350173609155&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1683%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50

 

I know it's only a model BUT it shows the L34A1 silenced SMG (referred to as an Apache by all the armourers I knew) exactly as I remember it!! Nice to know the rumours of my insanity are still only rumours!!

 

Any one else remember these weapons at all???? The lower picture is the version I remember using.

[julezee001]

Totally agree with you, having only seen and shot the lower version. I can only think the woodwork would be needed if a great number of rounds were fired to save scorching fingers? This would have been an unlikely happening for those issued with the weapon as the idea would have been to shoot briefly, and scoot asap!!

 

Jules

[Redcap]

Bingo. Thought I'd seen one years ago. NP8901 immediately after capture against overwhelming odds in the opening shots of the Falklands War. Spot the SMG the Argentinian is carrying.

 

[Tony B]

I know of a deac one for sale if anyone is intrested.

[Guest catweazle (Banned Member)]

I have one with the grip.i was told it was not fitted to British army but was for private sales,i supose a foreign army could be a private sale as far as the company is concerned.cw.

[ArtistsRifles]

I know of a deac one for sale if anyone is intrested.

 

 

Which version??

[Marmite!!]

Don't fancy this one then... only £3,800

[ArtistsRifles]

One word - UGH!!!!! Waste of a good weapon (unless you are the evil villain in a Bond film!!) :rofl:

[Tony B]

Which version??

Silenced without wood.

[ferretfixer]

I have one with the grip.i was told it was not fitted to British army but was for private sales,i supose a foreign army could be a private sale as far as the company is concerned.cw.

 

The British army variant is the L34A1. It was NEVER issued with a wooden foregrip. The fore grip was marketed by Sterling as the 'Comercial' version.

IE: ANY other end user EXCEPT the British Army. It is simply an accessory & is held onto the silencer jacket by a steel band & a retaining screw through the bottom of the grip.

In actual fact, it provides more comfortable handhold on the Weapon in usage!

THE REASON FOR FITTING IS THAT WITH PROLONGED USE, THE SILENCER CASING HEATS UP RAPIDLY!

The Armys usage discouraged that sort of shooting. It was for tactical purposes. IE: Taking out sentrys Etc, so the user would not need to fire many rounds on a patrol. To that end, it was removed as another item that may endure damage & subsequent loss anyway & keep the smooth lines of the weapon for possible concealment.......:cool2:

So, for export sales to foriegn nations military, & all of the Semi-Auto only versions. A wood grip was fitted. If you wish to remove this accessory, it is a simple matter. It then looks similar to a Brit army version.....:coffee:

[ferretfixer]

Don't fancy this one then... only £3,800

 

I know EXACTLY where this one is! :-\

What a horrible & prentceious looking gun!

 

These were marketed by Sterling for the Arab prince side of the market.

They seem to like a lot of Gold things over there! :cool2:

They were aimed at the Arab Royal BodyGuard side of the Market.

If you do some research, you will sometimes see goldplated AK47's also used by Bodyguards.

Check out the bayonet. I mentioned these in a previous post. Brit N0.5 has wood grips. Sterling COMERCIAL sales has Metal SLR versions.....:coffee:

[Tony B]

There were some silver plated or chrome Lee Enfeild number ones found with Saddam's bodygaurds. Funny thing, they'd been de activated. :cool2:

[ferretfixer]

There were some silver plated or chrome Lee Enfeild number ones found with Saddam's bodygaurds. Funny thing, they'd been de activated. :cool2:

 

I guess even his own bodyguards couldnt be trusted!

What a lovely Regime! :cool2:

 

Mike

[ArtistsRifles]

The British army variant is the L34A1. It was NEVER issued with a wooden foregrip. The fore grip was marketed by Sterling as the 'Comercial' version.

IE: ANY other end user EXCEPT the British Army. It is simply an accessory & is held onto the silencer jacket by a steel band & a retaining screw through the bottom of the grip.

In actual fact, it provides more comfortable handhold on the Weapon in usage!

THE REASON FOR FITTING IS THAT WITH PROLONGED USE, THE SILENCER CASING HEATS UP RAPIDLY!

The Armys usage discouraged that sort of shooting. It was for tactical purposes. IE: Taking out sentrys Etc, so the user would not need to fire many rounds on a patrol. To that end, it was removed as another item that may endure damage & subsequent loss anyway & keep the smooth lines of the weapon for possible concealment.......:cool2:

So, for export sales to foriegn nations military, & all of the Semi-Auto only versions. A wood grip was fitted. If you wish to remove this accessory, it is a simple matter. It then looks similar to a Brit army version.....:coffee:

 

The "word" from the Regimental Armourer was they were to be used in single shot only. Automatic fire was for life or death situations only and if you did it and survived the enemy - he would kill you!!! I think he was only joking but it was always safe to err on the side of caution in this area!!!

Apparently - so he told us - auto-fire ruined the silencer and cost a lot of money to put right. I know it was a very effective silencer. All you could hear was the action moving when firing it and from 15 to 20 feet away you coudn't even here that!!

As I said - 21 used it as a drill weapon on those rare occasions we did such things as carrying a loaded SLR though the streets of london was a no-no for obvious reasons....

[Tony B]

Any moderator is only efficent for a small number of rounds anyway. And they should use subsonic rounds,

[Redcap]

There are two generqal forms of sound moderator for firearms: Rubber gasket style, and the so-called "wipes and slides" style, which uses metal baffle plates. The latter is more robust and lasts a fair amount of time, the former is more efficient at first, but tends to fall apart after a few rounds.

 

Of course, the mechanism behind the moderation or silencing of the most famous of them all, the Welrod, is STILL on the secret list

[Tony B]

De Lisle is back in production apparently!

[ferretfixer]

The "word" from the Regimental Armourer was they were to be used in single shot only. Automatic fire was for life or death situations only and if you did it and survived the enemy - he would kill you!!! I think he was only joking but it was always safe to err on the side of caution in this area!!!

Apparently - so he told us - auto-fire ruined the silencer and cost a lot of money to put right. I know it was a very effective silencer. All you could hear was the action moving when firing it and from 15 to 20 feet away you coudn't even here that!!

As I said - 21 used it as a drill weapon on those rare occasions we did such things as carrying a loaded SLR though the streets of london was a no-no for obvious reasons....

 

He was absolutely correct! If you used full auto, it would burn the silencer out!

Full Auto was indeed, EMERGENCY only! :shocked:

[ferretfixer]

Any moderator is only efficent for a small number of rounds anyway. And they should use subsonic rounds,

 

Not quite correct. a silencer (Sound moderator to give it it's correct title) only works correctly with sub-sonic ammo as you say. The Sterling uses an ingenious design. there are 134 small holes approx 1mm in Dia drilled all the way down the barrel in the twist of the rifling. This in use, 'slows' down the round as it passes down the barrel. To be efficient, ANY round has to be sub-sonic when it exits the weapons muzzle. IE: it HAS to be at the most 928 Feet per second. The sterling achieves this by the bleeding off of gas as the round travels down the barrel. the bled off gas passes through a spiral wrap of alliuminium & hit's the silencer casing internally. this then travels down the casing & hit's a spiral diffuser. this looks like a helter skelter. the gases are swirled around this & pass into an expansion chamber & then exit the front of the casing. By the time this happens, the round has long since left the weapon & the gasses have been slowed down to a level where they can exit to atmophere below the seed of sound. very clever device indeed.

 

To silence any weapon there are factors to be considered.

1. gas noise.

2.Action noise.

3.the round HAS to be sub-sonic for the weapon to be 'silenced'.

 

You see people in Films screwing silencers on revolvers. TOTALY wrong! There is ONLY one revolver you can silence properly, that is the Moisin Nagant. With a revolver there is a flash gap between the rear of the barrel (The forcing cone) & the face of the cylinder. This gap must be kept to a minimum. (The Armourer has gauges to check this) but enough to ensure the cylinder can turn & does NOT bear on the face of the barrel.

This gap WILL allow gase to vent to atmosphere & you WILL hear a crack here. The Moisin Nagant cylinder turns & goes forward to seal this gap (The only revlover I know to do this!) All Smi-auto pistols are NOT in silenced mode. There is the S&W Model 52 for Navy seals & the walther p.1 both 9mm with 'silencer'. To make it silent, the user has to engage a swinging catch to lock the slide forward to prevent it's rearward movement. That way, ONLY the gas from the sub-sonic bullet can be dealt with by the silencer to make it work. The action has to be unlocked & worked manually to eject the spent case & reload a fresh round.

 

The Mkii & VI silenced sten used a similar method to the Sterling L34 but the design was cruder. The bolt in a Sterling is also a lightend version & has a weaker mainspring to effect semi-auto movement with a round that produces less backward gasses for the action to function. (As is the Sten)

The whole action of mechenisim is too long & complicated to put down here in words. But if anybody requires indepth information, I am happy to oblige............:coffee:

[ferretfixer]

De Lisle is back in production apparently!

 

It has been for a number of years under a different company name. I belive they bought the patent rights.

[Tony B]

When you know your'e dealing with experts. I did wonder how the Stirling quieted the action. Being an open bolt, the mass is critical and of course you would get some gas escaping on ejection. On the revolver side, SOE did produce a padded sort of glove that a revolver would fit into, one shot only and quite hairy to use I'd have thought. Makes me laugh when you see the 'baddy' in a film shove the barrel against a pillow and all you here is 'phut'.

[ferretfixer]

When you know your'e dealing with experts. I did wonder how the Stirling quieted the action. Being an open bolt, the mass is critical and of course you would get some gas escaping on ejection. On the revolver side, SOE did produce a padded sort of glove that a revolver would fit into, one shot only and quite hairy to use I'd have thought. Makes me laugh when you see the 'baddy' in a film shove the barrel against a pillow and all you here is 'phut'.

 

Yes, Im always amused at 'The ever lasting magazine' that apparantly holds hundereds of rounds before it is changed. If changed at all in some films! :cool2:

The STERLING (Note correct spelling!) was a superlative weapon to use.

The bolt was lightened, & the only way you could check was by noting the part number on it. Or, weighing it against a known normal one!

Because they also removed the inner smaller return spring. The end cap had a steel buffer ring & a rubber washer held in with an allen screw to absorb the very last kick from the bolt without causing damage (or noise) to the weapon in use. a VERY well thought out design. :yay:

AND, it was BRITISH!!!! :yay: Hurrah!!!!

[Tony B]

Like the A team, umpteen million rounds and never hit anyone! :n00b:

[ferretfixer]

Like the A team, umpteen million rounds and never hit anyone! :n00b:

 

Yes, wouldnt it be a nicer world if Warfare was like that. All the fun of firing weapons & no one actually getting hurt! :yay:

 

Any potential conflicts, They should put the opposing politicians in a field & let THEM fight it out! :cool2:

[Redcap]

Any potential conflicts, They should put the opposing politicians in a field & let THEM fight it out! :cool2:

 

I've been saying that for bloody years. It's why I was so P.O.'d when Mr. Ashdown decided he'd had enough of the backstabbing in that place and retired. Oh well. Can't say I really blame him, actually. :coffee: