Jimh Posted March 30, 2009 Author Share Posted March 30, 2009 I'll nip out and get some pictures later today. It's now got about as small as it is going to get. Last few brakets and clips off and the engine has been stripped down. Heads off for a top end overhaul, pump off for a recon one, sump off to get the sludge out of it and have a poke around at the bottom end and the injection pump off so we can strip the govener down to stop it hunting when it is cold. Stipped down that much it whould be possible to do a decent pain job on the block. As an aside it really goes against the grain spraying the whole thing sky blue. I've always wanted something with a Gardner engine because they are so lovely pointed grey with all the beautifully made alloy covers polished. Seems a shame to plaster horrid light blue all over it. Anyway. One interesting thing I found was that the camshaft support bearing is a really rubbing design. It looks (and I am just guessing here based on no knowledge whatsoever of Gardner's design and development processes) like a lash up that was done very late in the day. The way the roller bearing sits shielded by the timing chain sprocket with no hope of getting oil in from the timing cover side seems a very poor arrangement. It clearly is a poor arrangement because the roller bearing has been running somewhere near dry and is knackered. Seems odd that they didn't bother to put a proper oil feed to it. Hardly a big deal to swap out a little roller bearing but it did look a bit shabby compared with the usual Gardner quality. Got the winch drum and frame clean. Would have got them finished but the needlegun gave up the ghost. Took ages to get the fist sized lumps of scale out the inside of the drum. You are only working through tose little holes so it's a painful process. The brakes are nearly finished now. Pin after pin after pin to clean polish and refit. Things got slowed down a bit because one of the rear cross arms (the ones mounted on the diff housing) looked like it had hit something very hard. The taper appear to have been carefully refitted with a rasp in the hope that it would hang on. No hope of repairing that so it's had a new spindle made. I'll go and do those photos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gritineye Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 As an aside it really goes against the grain spraying the whole thing sky blue. I've always wanted something with a Gardner engine because they are so lovely pointed grey with all the beautifully made alloy covers polished. Seems a shame to plaster horrid light blue all over it. Anyway. Well if I see it looking like this one, I'll ask you to put the bonnet side covers on immediately! :-D Nothing else looks as good as a well polished engine Jimh. Antar Mike once said something like, "It's not a military vehicle, it's an ex military vehicle and it's mine, so I can do what I want." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimh Posted March 30, 2009 Author Share Posted March 30, 2009 That's what one should look like. Spot on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimh Posted March 31, 2009 Author Share Posted March 31, 2009 A day late but... Play spot the bits. The big thing is the brake cross linkage assembly. The one which has had a new spindle made for it. A bright and shiny guide roller. A primered prop shaft - or at least most of a primered prop shaft. This thing took for ever to get clean. Winch brake drum, cleaned and primered. It's also been refaced because it is so very important that the winch brake works effectively isn't it? One of the (many) brake linkages. These things have taken an age to clean up. This thing really does have one of the most rubbish brake mechanisms I've seen for a while. The rear winch pressure arms. These were actually bent. Not sure how they masnaged it but they did. Straightened up now and working properly. All bit of a waste of time because I suspect the rope will never leave the drum but there you go. The shiny thing in the front of the picture is the replacement roller for the pressure arm. The parts count on this winch in incredible. I can't believe that anyone made any profit on these things. Now for something different. A piston and conrod from the compressor. The sharp eyed will note that there is quite a lot of white metal missing. Oh dear. There seem to be a fair few outfits who will remetal direct run bearings for very reasonable sums so it isn't really worth trying to do this ourselves. It looks like the crank journal will need reground. Now we have the winch drum cleaned and mostly descaled. Just needs a needlegunning now. Which it would have had if the needlegun hadn't broken. Poor Scammell. Off with its heads. Time for brekkie. I'll post the rest shortly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimh Posted March 31, 2009 Author Share Posted March 31, 2009 And some more. A clean sump, yesterday. Spot the bit that was behind the injection pump. The engine is in remarkably good shape. I suspect it hasn't done much work since its rebuild in '57. The only thing we've found which is worn is the roller bearing on the end of the camshaft. You can see the rebuild plate just on the bellhousing adapter. There really are only so many pictures you can take of a Pioneer chassis. You'll see there is still a little needlegunning left to do. Annoyingly the delivery of wire brushes didn't arrive in time for the weekend so we haven't done very much to this since the last set of photos. A winch gearbox cleaned, stripped and primered. We stripped the brake drum off it to reface it and to free up the dog clutch. The only other thing was wrong with it was that the oil in it had turned to treacle. The offside end of the front axle waiting to be wire brushed. No grease any more. The gearbox is getting there. The nearside of the engine is also missing its cylinder heads. A radiator in undercoat. New nuts and bolts, new gaskets, new float and no mud. Yes I know there is a bit missed. Not the easiest thing in the world to paint these things. You will also notice a long st st tube poking out the top. This is for the float. It's been left long so the length can be set once the radiator is filled to the right level. Winch frame. Can you spot where the needle gun broke? And from the nearside. The flywheel has been refitted to check all the timing marks on the injection pump before I took it off. I just know that if it doesn't go back together and work then it will be my fault for some reason. One minor point that you almost certainly know about already. You'll see that we've taken the plates out of the ends of the leading edge spring hangers. This tube was solid with scale and mud and crap. Took quite a lot of chiselling to get it out. There has never been any paint in it so its been quietly rotting away since it was built. We'll get what paint we can in it but after that we'll just have to fill it with Waxoyl. Poke your finger around in the hole that the carden shaft for the winch passes through and see how much crap is in yours. Hubs (and some other bits) in undercoat. Lots more stuff in undercoat. Go on, guess Stuff in undercoat everywhere And that really is enough for now. Perhaps soon I'll be able to post some pictures of things being bolted back together and looking like they are dark green. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormin Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Looking fantastic Jim. Your not leaving anything undone. It'll be a great motor when it's complete. Making me wish I'd bought it now :-( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest catweazle (Banned Member) Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Looking good mate ,thanks for taking the time to post pics.CW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimh Posted April 6, 2009 Author Share Posted April 6, 2009 What is the point? Really, what is the point? I found myself sitting on a chair this weekend with a scriber in my hand picking out the little bits of paint between the wheel stud and the hub flange. Why? It is unlikely that once the wheels are back on they will never be taken off again so if I were slapdash then it is very unlikely that anyone would ever see it. Even if the wheel was off you would have to be looking very, very carefully to see the fault. Three hours to clean one drum and the end of the rocking beam. Similarly the covers on the rocking beam pivots. Look at all the paint around the screw heads. Take them off, pick all the paint out, wire brush them, wire brush the screws, clear the slots, make new gaskets and put them back on. 1 hour each. What a waste of time. Can't clean round the rear spring U shackles properly? Best take those off - another hour gone. And all the other bits too - yet another hour. Get to Sunday evening and look in wonder about the spotlessly clean bit you've been working on and wonder at how much time the rest is going to take. So apart from getting down about the futility of at all and borderline OCD behavior: Drilled the sheared bolts out of the spring shackles. Took one wheel to bits and got it ready for painting. This was a pretty painful task because you need to shift the tyre enough to clean the gap between the rim and the tyre properly. Anyone got any good tips for getting the tyres off? Got the offside chassis rail wirebrushed. Needlegunned the rest of the OS rocking beam. Took the rest of the rear hub capstans off for cleaning and painting. Not much to show for a weekend, really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gritineye Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 (edited) Jimh, the point is that YOU will know that it is as perfect as you could make it, I once had thoughts of doing what you are doing, but I know my attention span is way too short to complete the task (look underneath Forceful, the paint just won't stay on for long, due to my peace meal way of working). When it's done you will soon forget this part and get on with enjoying driving it, which will be great! Edited April 6, 2009 by gritineye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimh Posted April 15, 2009 Author Share Posted April 15, 2009 Better have some more pictures. Guess the parts: I wasn't going to do this but there aren't any bits more noticeable than the towing springs. Took them to bits on Monday to clean everything properly. Glad I did because there was so much crap trapped under the U shackles. Yuck What a rear hub and rocking beam looks like after it has been needle gunned. Now what one looks like after it's been wire brushed, poked, prodded and pricked. A finished rocking beam. There was about three days' work to get it to this state. The more you do the more you see. I ended up stripping the springs and the spring slippers down bit at a time to get the clean enough. A worthwhile use of time and resources, eh? The same side from the rear Four of the spring U shackle bolts had to be drilled out at two were sheared. I'm not sure how big the loads on them are but they must be reasonably big to shear a 7/16 bolt. Standing up to close inspection. Well close by my inability to take photos standard. That's better. Cover of the rocking beam pivot. Yes, I should have blown the dust out before I took the picture. Trust me to take a sharp picture when something wasn't properly clean. Rear spring around one of the U shackles. Need to go and move something. I'll post the rest in a mo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimh Posted April 15, 2009 Author Share Posted April 15, 2009 Real cliffhanger. Hmmm. Anyway, here is some top quality Scammell welding. I know that we were still struggling with arc welding in those days and there were obviously issues with the availablity of skilled welders and good quality materials but the welding seems to range from dreadful to downright comic. This one is at the dreadful end of the scale. At least it's clean. More weld Guide roller bracket in undercoat The tent has been taken over with green stuff. It's everywhere. Brake air tank. The other brake air tank. This one is slightly more interesting than just another thing in green undercoat. Do you see the mark which looks like a scratch towards the right of the tank? That is a delamination which runs almost the whole length of the tank. You could almost lift the edge of it up. The quality of the materials they were working with was truly shocking at times. And finally (hurrah) a pile of bits cleaned and waiting to be painted. I lied. There is one more. Not good quality I'm afraid but this is the spindle from the brake cross arms which are mounted on the rear axle. As you can probably make out the taper has had bit of a field repair. This is why we had to make a new one. And that's about it. Big thanks to NielsV for the photos of his Pioneer. It was certainly interesting to see just how crude the cab is supposed to be. Nice to know it isn't going to be as hard as I thought to get the cab right. More later. Bet you can't wait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrtcrowther Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 The pace you work at is Bonkers!! I've had my Explorer 3 years and it still won't see the road this year.:shocked: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimh Posted April 15, 2009 Author Share Posted April 15, 2009 There is more than me. My old man spends prety much all day on it. The other thing is that there isn't very much challenging in it so far. Just taking stuff off, cleaning it, painting it and putting it in the finished pile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormin Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 There is more than me. My old man spends prety much all day on it. The other thing is that there isn't very much challenging in it so far. Just taking stuff off, cleaning it, painting it and putting it in the finished pile. I'd have said all that needle gunning and wirebrushing is quite challenging, considering the standards you've got it to! I've copped out and gone for the blasting option, much quicker but probably more messy and I'm stuck with working outside. I've also not gone to the lengths of stripping leaf springs down. I'm working in someone elses yard and time is somewhat limited. I've got nothing but admiration for you and your fathers dedication and thorough approach! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyFowler Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 I am in total agreement with Stormin ! Excellent progress ! Very inspiring ! :clap::clap: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimh Posted April 27, 2009 Author Share Posted April 27, 2009 Not a lot to show for a couple of weeks. Lots done but nothing very exciting - ooh look, another green thing. The new transmission brake drum. You can probably see that it has been fabricated rather than cast. It is fortunate that Scammell chose a size for their brake drum which was almost bang on a standard pipe size. Thanks for that. Not a lot to say about it other than it fits. Front towing hook spring in undercoat The weight frame in undercoat. The clamp is for hanging it from the fork lift for spraying. The rear towing hook spring in primer. This one had to come apart completely because there was some very heavy scale between the leaves. Nice and clean now. Oh dear. Found something else to remove. Still, makes it easier cleaning the spring and dropping the perch bar down makes it easier to clean and paint. The spring won't come to pieces without a lot of work so we'll just have to do the best with the shackles in place. Just in case anyone asks if the inside of the stub axle carriers are clean... Anyone know what all the numbers are about? They don't seem to ties up with any of the vehicle numbers. Missed a bit. Back on all fours so the underside of the rocking beams can get cleaned properly. Spent most of the weekend cleaning the nearside spring, rocking beam and drums. There is the inside of the rocking beams, the rear axle housing and the inside of the chassis rails to finish and we can get some paint on everything. Then we can start bolting things back on. And finally a pile of copper pipes, cleaned and annealed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimh Posted May 4, 2009 Author Share Posted May 4, 2009 Spent the weekend playing happy families so not much progress from me. Fortunately my old man is retired so can be a little more committed. I've got a couple of regattas this month so I don't expect to do a huge amount. The winch frame in undercoat And the drum. It took a while to get the scale off this bit. They obviously gave it a quick blow over once it was all assembled and very little of it got on the drum. Lumps of muddy scale as big as your fist inside it. However, it's not too bad now. The engine is getting there now. Bit of a fiddly one but is should look nice once it's got a fresh coat of paint on it. Crappy blurry photo trying to show that it is pretty clean around the nut heads. The paint at the back of the base nut is sitting in some pores and isn't going to come out very easily. Front of the engine. You can't see much of this once everything is back together but it should be reasonably easy to keep it clean. Another crappy shot showing that it's clean. This particular nut is hidden behind the injection pump and some pipes so it is vitally important that it is right. Ho hum. Nearly there. Except inside the chassis rail. That's still disgusting. As you can probably see in the shot above some things have already been painted bog house duck egg sorry, historically correct sky blue. Retch. For those who know their 6LWs that is the fan bracket. It looks a bit different because this one also has the compressor mounted on it. A clean sump in yuck blue. And a bellhousing in the sort of blue we used to paint hospital wards before we realised that it made people feel worse, not better. Some odds and sods now. The front spring in undercoat. And the rear towing hook spring in undercoat. Let's have some more borderline OCD close ups of clean nuts. This is the 1 1/4 BSF nut which holds the king pin in place as well as the steering arm. Take the split pin out, remove the nut, clean the nut up, clean the thread with a die nut, wire brush everything, put it back together with a new split pin. Perfect. Then take a picture of it and see that you've missed a bit. Rats. However, on the offside the nut won't shift. I could heat it up to get it off but there is a risk the damn thing will pick up and wreck the thread. If it needed to come off you'd do it but because it is only for cleaning then it isn't worth the risk. Just have to do the best we can with it. This is also what the one above looked like to start with. Clean Cleaner And that'll do for now. I keep saying it but we really will need to start painting things in DBG soon because we're running out of space to put all these bits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austin Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 Your attention to detail is brilliant mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormin Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 You must have a cheap source of wire brushes! I quite like the blue for the engine and transmission. Gives a nice clean look to everything and easy to spot oil leaks. May have to give my engine the once over with the spray gun again when I'm done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swill1952xs Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 You must have a cheap source of wire brushes! I quite like the blue for the engine and transmission. Gives a nice clean look to everything and easy to spot oil leaks. May have to give my engine the once over with the spray gun again when I'm done. I was wondering that too as they are bleedin' expensive things to buy. Not only that, Jim's poor old dad must end up looking like a pin cushion after all that brushing. I've had 4-1/2" wire brush bristles go right through my overalls and T shirt and get stuck in my skin. ............Ooooh.................fu.........bug .........an' ouch........ :shocked: :shocked: :rofl: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest catweazle (Banned Member) Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 Fantastic job mate keep it up.thanks for posting pics.CW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimh Posted May 5, 2009 Author Share Posted May 5, 2009 I was wondering that too as they are bleedin' expensive things to buy. Not only that, Jim's poor old dad must end up looking like a pin cushion after all that brushing. I've had 4-1/2" wire brush bristles go right through my overalls and T shirt and get stuck in my skin. www.toolstation.com seems to be the cheapest source at the moment. A 75mm wire cup for your drill comes in at £1.91 and 75mm twist knot cups for your grinder are £3.97. If you have a 180mm grinder then the 100mm twist knot cups are £6.61 but they last forever. Knackering to use but get the big bits done quickly. I think so far we've worked through about fifty quid's worth of power wire brushes and we'll need the same again to finish it so in comparison with having a blaster there to get it to the same standard it is pretty cheap (as long as you don't count the manhours). If you are going out to buy a grinder for this sort of work buy one with a spindle speed of no more than 8000 rpm. Our one runs far too fast which limits the brush life and means you get peppered with wirey shrapnel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormin Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 www.toolstation.com seems to be the cheapest source at the moment. A 75mm wire cup for your drill comes in at £1.91 and 75mm twist knot cups for your grinder are £3.97. If you have a 180mm grinder then the 100mm twist knot cups are £6.61 but they last forever. Knackering to use but get the big bits done quickly. I think so far we've worked through about fifty quid's worth of power wire brushes and we'll need the same again to finish it so in comparison with having a blaster there to get it to the same standard it is pretty cheap (as long as you don't count the manhours). If you are going out to buy a grinder for this sort of work buy one with a spindle speed of no more than 8000 rpm. Our one runs far too fast which limits the brush life and means you get peppered with wirey shrapnel. That is cheap! For a comparison I've been doing my own blasting. So far it's cost me more than fifty quid in grit and diesel for the compressor just to do rear half of chassis and rear axles, plus a few brackets. The initial cost for the equipment is also higher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppypiesdad Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 (edited) Thanks jimh for that link Jamie Edited May 5, 2009 by poppypiesdad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimh Posted May 11, 2009 Author Share Posted May 11, 2009 Sailing this weekend so I didn't do very much but there has been some progress which I'll get some pictures of later. It can be a bit depressing just looking at paint and primer and scale and other things which need doing before it looks like a lorry again so it is nice to see things that remind you it might be finished one day. This is the speedo which came out of it. What you don't see in that picture (unless you are a serious Smiths wonk) is that not only are parts of the movement missing it is also the wrong movement botched onto the right mask. Not very hopeful. This is what the stars at Richmond Speedograph sent back to us on Friday. They got us to do a wheel count so it is now somewhere near right for the vehicle and everything works now. New body, new glass and new bezel. The only thing which put the cost up was that they didn't have the artwork for the mask so there was a charge for that. For those people who go to them now you shouldn't need to pay for that. They even put the correct blue window in for the backlighting. Really can't recommend this lot enough. Very helpful people and they know their stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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