Kudos to the Met Police & OT refuelling

[ArtistsRifles]

Neil,

 

The problem is, that once red is in the system it can be detected by Customs & Excise, even if you have run it out and go on to normal DERV, there will be a residue present. So when you get to go on the road, you run the risk of having it checked and detected.

 

Is the engine capable of running on multifuel principle? If so, the clumsy motorist could be your saviour, by using petrol/diesel mix.........all tax paid for by someone else!

 

Unfortunately not - whilst the likes of Zil's, Gaz.s etc are multifuel the engine in the BMP/OT series are pure diesel only I'm afraid. The engine dates from the 1960's - maybe thats the reason why???

 

We'll have one more bash at registration after W&P - then if that gets knocked back I'll take a closer look at the Red.

[Tugger]

I work in the marine trade and we supply red diesel (Gas Oil). As far as we have been made aware, Red does have a lower calorific value than white pump diesel but in turn it is higher than heating oil. I will find the figures but cant lay my hands on them at the moment.

 

All but the most modern diesel car engines will run ok and without harm on red however it is a dirtier fuel (literally more rubbish in it)* there will be more smoke, it does not have the anti foam and gelling additives and detergants that road/white diesel has.

 

With respect to use on the road, this is a big no-no unless you have dispensation as farmers and plant users etc. However I have seen first hand that after filling a car with red the owner proceed to a Customs house and pay the road duty and extra vat and in turn were issued with a certificate declaring vat and duty paid (there was however no way of telling when the red fuel should have been out of the system:cool2:)

 

I personally can't see the problem with Neil using gas oil as long as the vehicle isn't going to be used on the public highway, if it is though and if vegtable oil isn't being considered, with the loss of 'marine red' (not that I imagine Neil will be going that far out of his way to top up) and the various discounts that seem to be available, white road diesel seems to be next viable solution

 

 

*with the relative shortage of crude to make fuels from, more of the crude is being used and therefore more of the raw material that was once discarded is included. This results in a shorter shelf life for the cheaper fuels i.e. gas oil. If left standing for a number of months particles of a tarry substance (asphaltines) will appear, over time these will sink to the bottom of your tank, solidify and eventually start to block filters etc. We have had this happen on a number of occasions to boats admitedly not used for a period of time but with previously clean tanks.

[Guest catweazle (Banned Member)]

Thanks Tugger for taking the time to post,What do you do in the marine trade?as you probably know i like a bit of salt air.:-D

[Tony B]

I have seen Customs and Excise check vehicles in the middle of Exmoor on the road. As all the ones at that time were OK don't know if they have to prove you did, or you have to prove they don't. As it's Custom & Excise they have some very sweeping powers.

 

You are here: Excise & Other

FAQ: Road fuels and other oils

 

 

 

(Download options for this document)

 

 

Contents

 

<A href="http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pageExcise_ShowContent&id=HMCE_CL_001764&propertyType=document#P4_40">What is the duty rate for super unleaded and/or lead replacement petrol?

What is the Government’s policy on road fuel gas?

Are alternative fuels subject to duty?

Can I run my vehicle on rebated heavy oil (red diesel)?

How much fuel can a commercial vehicle bring into the UK without paying additional duty?

Are there any reliefs or repayments available from excise duty?

Can I obtain excise duty relief for oil used to generate electricity?

 

top ^

What is the duty rate for super unleaded and/or lead replacement petrol?

 

Since Budget 2001, higher octane fuels such as these are charged duty at either the unleaded or ultra low sulphur petrol rate, depending on the sulphur and aromatics content of the fuel. This decision was taken following an environmental assessment (published on the Department for Transport website), which showed that higher octane fuels were generally no more polluting than the lower octane alternatives.

top ^

What is the Government’s policy on road fuel gas?

 

Excise duty is due on gas for use as road fuel. The most common forms of road fuel gas are liquefied petroleum gas (LPG), and compressed natural gas.

Following a consultation on how best to ensure that future support for road fuel gases continues to reflect environmental and other policy objectives, the 2003 Pre-Budget Report announced that the duty incentive for LPG would be decreased over time to a level more commensurate with its environmental benefits, and that the incentive relative to the main road fuels for natural gas would be maintained at its current level until 2007.

To reflect the relative environmental benefits of the fuel more accurately Budget 2006 announced the duty differential between LPG and main road fuels will be reduced by the equivalent of 1 penny per litre each year to 2008-09 and that the duty differential between Natural Gas rates and main duty rates will be maintained each year until 2008-09. The rate of duty for LPG increased to 12.21 pence per kilogram and for natural gas to 10.81 pence per kilogram on 7 December 2006. This decision is in line with the established alternative fuels framework. Public Notice 76 Excise Duty on Gas for use as Fuel in Road Vehicles provides further, detailed information.

top ^

Are alternative fuels subject to duty?

 

Unless used within an authorised pilot project, alternative fuels are charged duty at the same rate as the fuel they replace. Department for Environment, Food & Rural Affairs (DEFRA) website provides more information on alternative fuels.

A duty incentive for biodiesel of 20 pence per litre relative to the main road fuels was introduced on 26 July 2002. A similar incentive was introduced for bioethanol on 1 January 2005. These differentials were maintained with the duty increases announced in Budget 2006.

top ^

Can I run my vehicle on rebated heavy oil (red diesel)?

 

Only 'excepted vehicles' (Public Notice 75 - Appendix C) can use rebated heavy oil (red diesel) as fuel when used on the public road.

Using rebated heavy oil as road fuel in anything other than an 'excepted vehicle' may render that vehicle liable to seizure. Also, financial penalties may be imposed on the owner/driver of the vehicle.

Public Notice 75 Fuel for diesel vehicles provides further, detailed information. From the C&Esite.

Edited July 10, 2008 by Tony B

[Richard Grosvenor]

when we lose red diesel for boats in november and have to pay road diesel prices ,the stuff they serve up will be red,thats fraud as far as i am concerned.I think most of the non black smoke is sulphar.i like a bit of black smoke.

 

 

They're banning Red Diesel for boats now!?? Why??

 

Oh yer, forgot, boating tends to be done by middle class people who like spending time in the country. That's why. Silly me!

 

 

My old Militant had quite a bit of red diesel in it when I got, but I've always used white since. Some people have suggested that it is a Gun TRACTOR. But I think thats too much of a technicality to stand up in court.

 

Regards

Richard

[Chrisg]

They're banning Red Diesel for boats now!?? Why??

 

Oh yer, forgot, boating tends to be done by middle class people who like spending time in the country. That's why. Silly me!

 

 

My old Militant had quite a bit of red diesel in it when I got, but I've always used white since. Some people have suggested that it is a Gun TRACTOR. But I think thats too much of a technicality to stand up in court.

 

Regards

Richard

 

You'll upset CW

[Richard Grosvenor]

Why? Subject very close to his heart?

 

I don't blame him, I used to have a boat many years ago. I'll have another one someday but as they say a gentleman should have a boat 1ft long for year old he is I'm going to have to get cracking!

 

Regards

Richard

[Chrisg]

Yes the banning of red diesel for boats

[Richard Grosvenor]

Now not wanting to go off topic anymore but why?

As I understand it White diesel is for road use and red is clearly marked NOT for road use. Rivers ain't roads are they!

 

I could go on about how it's time we got more like the French and started standing up for ourselves but I'm not going there!

 

Richard

[Guest catweazle (Banned Member)]

Hi Richard,Red diesel was given to leisure boaters by Winston Churchill as a thanks for the little ships,The EU,have removed it because they are little s..ts.The duty on white diesel was origanaly to pay for the upkeep of the queens highway.as we dont require them to maintain anything what so ever why should we pay for white but be given red.I dont really get upset about it anymore because i will be leaving the country and taking all my finances with me before they work out more ways to take it off me.Most of the people i know who have boats,many in retirement,dont smoke or drink,spend there hollidays on it,and amuse therselves maintaining it through out the year.in the process helping to keep in work all the people in the indusry.have no doubt in your mind this is a serious blow for the industry,surveys have revealed a staggering 30% of owners are considering moving there home port to France,Belgium,Holland,where they have to use white diesel which will be cheaper than our red,and there birthing fees will be 75% cheaper,12% are expected to give up,as i will.

i suspect there will be a lot of total loss claims as prices will fall by as much as 50%,my friend who has a nelson with 2 new engines g/boxs shafts and propellers put it up for sale at £45.000 2yrs ago ,it it now down to £30.000 and not one offer.I personally have spent 5yrs restoring my boat which is of historic interest,and have spent a considerable sum and employed tradesmen along the way,so my contribution to the industry has been substantial and would of been more if we hadnt found ourselves in this position.We were sold down the river by the RYA and all the other so called authorities,Beware coming to a hobby near you soon you had better believe it.Oh by the way the black smoke is my way of saying BO>>>>KS.

[AndyFowler]

I have to say I share your view of a poor old blighty CW , I've found a video which may cheer you up a little ! Andy

[Guest catweazle (Banned Member)]

I have to say I share your view of a poor old blighty CW , I've found a video which may cheer you up a little ! Andy

Fantastic,now i have to look at all the others,all those skills gone into restoring it,all lost here.Thanks,I will have to put mine on u tube only some members have expressed an interest in seeing it,oh by the way loved the black smoke i guess that would clear up at max speed which would probably be about 45 knts thats big for a speed boat.thanks again,

[gritineye]

Fantastic,now i have to look at all the others,all those skills gone into restoring it,all lost here.Thanks,I will have to put mine on u tube only some members have expressed an interest in seeing it,oh by the way loved the black smoke i guess that would clear up at max speed which would probably be about 45 knts thats big for a speed boat.thanks again,

 

Well I'd like to see it CW, your efforts haven't gone unnoticed, if you could take the time, looking forward to it

Edited July 10, 2008 by gritineye

[AndyFowler]

 

Fantastic,now i have to look at all the others,all those skills gone into restoring it,all lost here.Thanks,I will have to put mine on u tube only some members have expressed an interest in seeing it,oh by the way loved the black smoke i guess that would clear up at max speed which would probably be about 45 knts thats big for a speed boat.thanks again,

I was looking for a vid on the race but they all appeared to be of the modern boats! Watched the one about the 1984 race and was impressed by the blokes in the RIB ! Look forward to seeing yours ! Oh and congratulations on finishing , Prize winner I believe ? Andy F :bow::bow::bow:

[AndyFowler]

I think you may like these videos of old Maycraft boats CW ! Enjoy ! http://www.mayeaboats.com/movie.htm

Edited July 10, 2008 by AndyFowler

[Guest catweazle (Banned Member)]

I was looking for a vid on the race but they all appeared to be of the modern boats! Watched the one about the 1984 race and was impressed by the blokes in the RIB ! Look forward to seeing yours ! Oh and congratulations on finishing , Prize winner I believe ? Andy F :bow::bow::bow:

Hi,i have a copy of the 69 race,i could put on disc.You wont find much on this years race as it is obviously not something the bbc or any one else wants to be involved with,the places that were visited were even kept in the dark ,locals didnt even know the boats were coming,the first boat into Oban were arrested for drug smuggling,as it had been watched on radar and they never realised it was the race.you couldnt make it up.I was only involved with the engeneering on Gee Andy allthough i like to think my course notes through the thames estuary helped give them a bit of an edge.i did say to Richard Farrant before that Leg thats where they could make up the time.I will gather up as much pics etc and some video i hope but it will take a little while.thanks for the interest.:-D

[Guest catweazle (Banned Member)]

Well I'd like to see it CW, your efforts haven't gone unnoticed, if you could take the time, looking forward to it

Hi ,i will get some on there soon as i can work it out,the problem is my stuff is all inside as no one has given me any from the outside,But i have some from engine trialls lots of smoke noise,turbo whine,unfortunately you wont be able to smell the oil,thanks for the interest.:-D

[Tugger]

CW, I work at a marina on the East coast with about 550 berths and another 150 or so on the hardstand. My job? trying to get them all out for the winter and all back in in the spring.:sweat:

 

If you ever come up Ipswich way you'll have to let me know.

[Guest catweazle (Banned Member)]

CW, I work at a marina on the East coast with about 550 berths and another 150 or so on the hardstand. My job? trying to get them all out for the winter and all back in in the spring.:sweat:

 

If you ever come up Ipswich way you'll have to let me know.

A friend and myself fancied doing that a few years ago,we went to look at a Marina that was for sale at Torpoint in Cornwall.£750.000.There was no land available so we didnt buy it.Strange place it was a stone square compound built just off shore by Napolionic prisoners of war.It was used for loading gunpowder.very succesfull marina ,but nothing else to do.Ipswich thats about £750 each way :rofl:dont think its gonna happen mate not by boat anyway.Be lucky.

[Guest catweazle (Banned Member)]

I think you may like these videos of old Maycraft boats CW ! Enjoy ! http://www.mayeaboats.com/movie.htm

Thanks again we have just looked at all of it,inc the still pics and all the history etc,its great they are still building in wood,love those seatek engines,if anyone has the slightest interest in speed boats they should look at this site.cheers.