welbike Posted January 18 Author Share Posted January 18 Removed the old bearing races, the trick with welding a bead inside them works a treat!! They are normal cup and cone bearings, same size as Cushman wheels, so easy, had them in stock! Lex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welbike Posted January 18 Author Share Posted January 18 I had 2 dashboards, one chrome one, and another that needed work, but used that one in the end, as I could not persuade myself to sandblast the chrome one! Lexs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welbike Posted January 18 Author Share Posted January 18 Also had a go with spoking the wheels, just to see if it worked, before painting the hub and rim, Indian used a complicated spoke pattern! Lex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rewdco Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 (edited) On 1/18/2024 at 4:09 PM, welbike said: Also had a go with spoking the wheels, just to see if it worked, before painting the hub and rim, Indian used a complicated spoke pattern! Lex X3 on the drum side, X4 on the other side... Not so special...? Edited January 31 by rewdco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welbike Posted February 1 Author Share Posted February 1 Jan, maybe not for Enfields!! Lex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welbike Posted February 19 Author Share Posted February 19 (edited) Found another difficult part, a rear cylinder, mine wasn't really usable, valve pockets too deep, and liner fitted, that was bored off centre, and bottom locating ridge half gone, so bit the bullet, and bought an NOS one in Australia when it came up last month, very expensive, but what isn't these days? Lex Last two pics of the old cylinder, as you can see, no valve seat can be added on the intake. Edited February 19 by welbike additional info 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 Good find Lex. As they say " The cost is forgotten long after the quality is felt. Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert condick Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 Hi Does anyone have a list of WD numbers, matching to chassis numbers/eng. numbers? Indian 741B trying to trace GDA 18289 , GDA 13896, WD number if they had one. regs Rupert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 (edited) That appears to come from the same contract as mine (S/M2404)10,248 machines, The only information I know of is in British Forces Motorcycles by Orchard and Madden. It's very incomplete but they list a series of only 4984 WD serial numbers for the UK (I Guess) I just picked a number at random. Edited June 17 by Ron 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welbike Posted June 16 Author Share Posted June 16 This is what I have written down about it, from the fronts of various manuals and parts lists, a bit confusing. Indian 741 Frame and Engine numbers chart Engine No’s. Frame No’s. Contr. GB Contract US Date Amount GDA101- 741101- 2193 and 2220? ? 5499 GDA5600 7415600 GDA5601- 7415601- 2384 and 2404? W398-qm11749 Feb1942 13104 GDA18705 74118705 Subtotal Brit contracts: 18603 GDA18706 74118706 Lend Lease? W398-qm11769 Feb 1942 13330 GDA32036 74132036 GDA32037- 74132037- W478-ORD-3409 June 1943 3120 GDA35157 74135157 Total amount: 35053 1 US Registration number known: USA 642364 1942 Model 42-741 B British Contracts info, see also O&M; Contract Engine No’s Frame No’s WD No’s Date Amount S/M2404 GDA ? 741 ? C4896842- 1942 10248 GDA 741 ? C4898825 C4953034- C4955034 C5574052- C5575051 S/M2220 GDA ? 741 ? C4782691- 1943 1800 or 4900 ? C4784490 S/M2384 GDA ? 741 ? C4895721- 1943 1121 or 2624 ? C4896841 S/M2193 GDA ? 741 ? C ? 1943 1100 Total amount: 14269 18872? This is by no means complete, just written down what is known at the moment of writing, more research will be needed. Lex Schmidt 24-09-2014 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10FM68 Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 (edited) These figures come from Rob Van Meel's version of the Chilwell List. There are one or two discrepancies with your figures which may be of interest. Of course, the Chilwell List is quite dodgy in places - for a variety of reasons, no doubt, not least that the original would have been compiled over a long time by a number of different clerks with varying degrees of accuracy. But I offer them for what they may be worth - C4369589 – 4369674 Dds1624 Motor cycle combination 1204cc model 340B C4372332 – 4372518 ---------------------------ditto----------------------------------- C4370932 – 4370981 ---------------------------ditto----------------------------------- C4448086 – 4448087 ----------------------------ditto----------------------------------- C4501466 – 4501601 SM2039 ---------------ditto--------------------------------- C4648240 – 4648339 SM2289-----------------ditto---------------------------------- C4896842 – 4898825 SM2404 Motorcycle Solo 500cc model 741B C4952859 – 4953033 SM2404 Motorcycle Solo 740cc C5574052 – 5575051 SM2404 Motorcycle Solo 500cc model 741B C4782692 – 4784490 SM2220 ---------------ditto------------------------ C4895721 – 4896841 SM2301 ---------------ditto------------------------ C4782629 – 4782630 SM2164 Motorcycle Solo 750cc model 640B 'Dds', I presume were direct purchases prior to the introduction of Lend Lease when the British Army was desperately short of vehicles of any type. Edited June 16 by 10FM68 Bottom line was incorrect Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welbike Posted June 16 Author Share Posted June 16 (edited) Interesting, I forgot about that source, have a copy of one page from the original, but the C numbers are a bit difficult to read. But your info on contract SM2164 is wrong, these are the only 4 models 640 (45 cubic or 750cc twins) supplied to the British, and are not 741's, also there were 4 C numbers, not 2, my 640 is from that contract and came from India. As said my info on the numbers in my chart above comes from the various Indian publications I own. Also Contract SM2404 C4952859 – 4953033 were 741's and not 740cc. that must have been a typo! SM stands for Supply Mechanical. Below an enlargement of that part of the list, plus a Lend Lease chart, with numbers. Cheers, Lex Edited June 16 by welbike additional info Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10FM68 Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 "But your info on contract SM2164 is wrong, these are the only 4 models 640 (45 cubic or 750cc twins) supplied to the British, and are not 741's, also there were 4 C numbers, not 2" I don't doubt it. This isn't my info, though, it is, as I said, from the source I mentioned and, as I also mentioned, that source is riddled with inaccuracies. But the specifics you refer to - the model numbers 340B & 741B are an addition to the Chilwell List by R V M taken from Orchard & Madden. So we are faced with two sources appearing to confirm a particular piece of information when, in fact, it is only one! And, if many more of the original pages are as difficult to read as the ones you show above, then it is unsurprising that RVM struggled here and there! You mention that your 640 came from India - I note at the bottom of the Lend Lease page above that, the figures don't include theatre transfers - so, I wouldn't expect them to be on the Chilwell List as that didn't cover (apart from acknowledging the allocated blocks of numbers) vehicles in overseas theatres, the Sappers, allied armies etc. Anyway, as I said, its there for what it's worth! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 It seems that some are confused by the model numbers of the military Indian's 741-640-340-344-841 etc. It's actually the date of design or inception. 741= July 1941. Etc. Ron 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welbike Posted June 16 Author Share Posted June 16 Ron, after the war it only got worse! the books that were written, like Iron Redskin, got all the military stuff wrong, and we're still dealing with the legacy of that! Been trying to set it right for years, but it's an uphill struggle. Cheers, Lex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10FM68 Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 (edited) Sorry Ron, I might have added to a bit of confusion. I have been trying to fathom out what you meant by "the four 640s" all afternoon - and now I have! The list I gave, of course shows only 2: C4782629 and 30 and Orchard & Madden says there were 2. But, I see your list has 31 and 32 hence your 4! The listing them as 741s, though, is my typo and I have corrected it above. But, your list, being an original, is authoritative I would say, so 4 it is and not 2. I checked with my copy of 'Army Transport - Data Book of Wheeled Vehicles" and that merely offers the contract numbers SM2193, 2220, 2384 and 2404 for 741Bs. I should also add that you unwittingly answered a question for me - one I have wanted to know the answer to for ages and that is the number of Allis Chalmers M6 High Speed tractors the British Army had - 132 acording to your list - which would be about right seeing as they would have been rare. Also - that there were just 2 M4s so many thanks for that! Edited June 16 by 10FM68 Added a couple of paras Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 I would liked to have called you by name. Your pseudonym seems a bit formal and doesn't mean anything to me. The list you refer to was posted by Lex, not me. Cheers Ron 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert condick Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 (edited) Hi wow thanks to you all, I have M4953034 - M4955463 as White Truck SM2277 15CWT more typo? regs Rupert Edited June 17 by rupert condick missed stuff out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 6 hours ago, rupert condick said: Hi wow thanks to you all, I have M4953034 - M4955463 as White Truck SM2277 15CWT more typo? regs Rupert That is a White Scout Car, British called it a 15cwt truck. The Prefix letter should be Z 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert condick Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 (edited) hi, it is listed as 4x4 personnel, I agree with Z for truck, but I do not know about these it just comes within the Indian M/C listing As listed earlier C4953034-C4955033, ? Indian M/c SM2404 I think this maybe a typo M4953034-M4955463 White P/Truck SM2277 some Indian combination numbers model 344 I think the C should be G G= Govt,? then date letters, as with the 741B eng. nos. or better just GDA = 741 CDD,= 344 I guess O=0 As FDO = 640 EDB = 542 and some are written CCD, (C34-1934) i found the us numbers sequel with the frame numbers, all 1944. just the odd one being out. Edited June 18 by rupert condick more info missed things out, more of the same Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welbike Posted June 17 Author Share Posted June 17 To come back to the Indian Model 640's I sent this information to the kind friends (Orchard & Madden) who wrote the book "British Forces Motorcycles" and they came back to me, that they want to have at least 2 sources before they change anything in the (next) book, there was also some mentioning of the other 2 numbers being Harley's !! But with my frame number being the highest recorded one for this model, and a matching numbers bike, numbers checked in person by a friend who was at the time the chief judge of the AMCA, (Antique Motorcycle Club of America) so I know for a 100% the numbers are OK, the numbers seem to add up. O&M mentions this: Frame 640 4445 - 640 4446 C4782629 - C478230 Engine FDO 4445 - FDO 4446 Chilwell mentions this: C4782629 - C478230 - C4782631 - C478232 So I say this: Frame Census Number 640 4443 C4782629 (this is my bike) 640 4444 C4782630 640 4445 C4782631 640 4446 C4782632 Hope more info will come about, but not holding my breath. Or if someone has another explanation? Below I'm sitting on a friends 640, he was so impressed with mine, that he wanted one too! so found him a restored one in the US, took some time to get it to Holland, but finally made it, and did some work to it, still have to get it registered though. Lex 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wally dugan Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 (edited) l would like to add this in 1945 batches of census numbers were allocated by central census vehicle W.D VEHICLE numbers some Z PREFIX WERE CHANGED TO C these can be found in the above document RVM contacted me about this a few weeks ago as he had seen it while researching the ARCHIVES at BEVERLEY the 1944 list that every one quotes was not amended which is why the list does not show them Edited June 18 by wally dugan check wording 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welbike Posted June 17 Author Share Posted June 17 Wally, Since when are the Beverly archives accessible again??? Really would like to know?? Cheers, Lex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wally dugan Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 What you are asking is never going to happen as it was broken up when the museum closed and the NATIONAL ARMY MUSEUM gave a lot of it away some was sold off when FORT PAULL had their sale some it was said ended up in skips some appear at local car boot sales and l have bought them if l see the museum's accession number on a item. As l told R V M ask the national army museum or the RLC MUSEUM as to what they have from BEVERLEY's archives but do not hold your breath look at what they did with the vehicles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welbike Posted June 18 Author Share Posted June 18 Ah, I assumed, when you said that Rob contacted you some weeks ago, he had just been to see the archives again!! It must be his formidable memory that he still knew stuff from back then. Cheers, Lex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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