** Scimitar Fatal Accident Investigation - Important CVRT Safety Information **

[andym]

I haven't seen this elsewhere, but the MOD have released their report into the fatal accident involving a Scimitar where the driver was struck by the turret bins when the barrel hit a tree.  The report details a number of safety issues that are relevant to CVRTs in private hands, including MOD's replacement of final drives following an on-road accident.  I suggest that anyone operating a CVRT (especially turreted variants) read the report and take action as appropriate?

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/655b304bd03a8d001207fc05/Investigation_into_the_Fatal_Accident_involving_Scimitar_Fighting_Vehicle_on_Salisbury_Plain_Training_Area_-_15_October_2021.pdf

Andy

[64EK26]

Andy

Thanks for posting this

Although I don't own a turreted vehicle, I will pass it on to few people I know who have them.

In my view it is a damming report and does highlight safety issues that private owners should be made aware of so that they can take suitable mitigation action.

Cheers

Richard

[teletech]

That's a loooong document to say what it actually said, which is basically:

The bins and particularly the larger bins of the later models represent a hazard to the driver when head-out.

Not running the side bins doesn't quite completely eliminate the hazard,  but it looks close.

Training is lacking and if you snag a barrel of a turreted CVR(T) on something while the driver is head-out, it could be almost instantly fatal.

Your intercom should be working and the commander and/or gunner should let the driver know of any potential barrel obstacle.

Dangerous things are dangerous.

There is an issue with the final drives where the MOD isn't comfortable with CVR(T) on the roads these days unless they have had upgraded final drives.  Also there are many of these vehicles in private hands on the roads with the final drives the MOD is concerned about and perhaps that should be more widely addressed.

This last detail is almost a throw-away blurb but might be the most significant to those owning post-release vehicles.  It seems anything not retrofitted to the 2019 standard of final drive could be a hazard.  What wasn't clear was if that applies only to repowered units (due to the increased torque of the diesel engine) and old petrol-power units are fine or if it's a universal risk.  It might also be that the risk is to vehicles that have been up-armored and weigh a lot more than original, or perhaps you need both more weight AND a repower to be a hazard.  More information would be helpful.  It also suggests that if someone in power sees this, it might end the sale of complete old-spec CVR(T) to the public.  I can't imagine there will be any left once stocks are donated to Ukraine anyway.

[sirhc]

CVRT is now out of service and the sales of them have dried up from the disposal agents. 
 

They were used on roads all around the world for nearly 50 years before the final drive incident occurred. I think given the very low number of miles they do in civilian ownership the risk is very low. Just avoid having people play with the turret while driving near trees.

[andym]

On 11/28/2023 at 7:03 PM, sirhc said:

CVRT is now out of service and the sales of them have dried up from the disposal agents. 
 

They were used on roads all around the world for nearly 50 years before the final drive incident occurred. I think given the very low number of miles they do in civilian ownership the risk is very low. Just avoid having people play with the turret while driving near trees.

The risk is unquantifiable without knowing if the issue is mileage, age or manoeuvre related.  It would be helpful to know what actually happened. That said, I think it's now of more interest to Ukrainians than anyone else.

What's more worrying is if MOD decide they have a liability for selling vehicles that might be dangerous and stop selling MVs to civilians.

Andy

[terryb]

it would appear the vehicle was travelling with the driver head out with the gun unsecured, turret lock disengaged, and presumeably the the turret was somewhere near 90 degrees to the hull. The force required to shear the traverse drive and spin the turret to that extent denotes it was travelling at some speed.

Turreted CVRT  must only be driven head up when gun in crutch, turrect lock on, unless tactical with driver down, and hatch secured 

what was the final drive incident?

Terry

[andym]

The final drive incident seems to have happened around 2017, causing the MOD to stop onroad use and get Ricardo to remanufacture and replace CVR(T) final drives.  I'm assuming that a final drive failed during onroad use, resulting in loss of control - it's described as "a serious accident".

There's a Ricardo press release here: https://www.ricardo.com/en/news-and-insights/press-releases/2019/ricardo-makes-first-deliveries-of-cvr-t-vehicle-drivelines-to-uk-mod

MOD's concern is that there may be an unknown number of CVR(T)s in private hands that do not have the updated final drives, especially if they were sold off before 2019, and that the owners aren't aware of the issue.

Andy

[teletech]

7 hours ago, andym said:

The final drive incident seems to have happened around 2017, causing the MOD to stop onroad use and get Ricardo to remanufacture and replace CVR(T) final drives.  I'm assuming that a final drive failed during onroad use, resulting in loss of control - it's described as "a serious accident".

There's a Ricardo press release here: https://www.ricardo.com/en/news-and-insights/press-releases/2019/ricardo-makes-first-deliveries-of-cvr-t-vehicle-drivelines-to-uk-mod

MOD's concern is that there may be an unknown number of CVR(T)s in private hands that do not have the updated final drives, especially if they were sold off before 2019, and that the owners aren't aware of the issue.

Andy

I guess if the MOD wants to send me a set of upgraded final drives for safety's sake, I would be willing to change mine out.