Landrover Lightweight FFR ( Larkspur)

[bigduke6]

Currently looking for information and pics on the Land Rover Lightweight FFR.

Does anyone know if the FFR Lightweight had the same Radio table, battery box  etc throughout out its life ? also looking for any pictures of Larkspur radio fitted in the lightweight. 
 

Thanks in advance.

[ruxy]

The URS - only one change during lifespan that I am aware of.  The sliders for the antenna base(s)  , Larkspur era , have  V support for the mounting flange ring , Clansman era , have  U support , the box section slider tube for V is plugged with a tree-wood wedge , the slider tube for U has a more sophisticated drive in plastic blanking plug.  Either slider can be used with Larkspur antenna bases or Clansman antenna bases / Balun.  Obviously only a total nerd would be aware - so don't forget.

Somewhere I have a note of the LWT  URS manufacturer  , almost certain it is marked on a plate - probably the battery box lid connections plate.

There is a plate  :-

Demountable  F.F.R.  Kit

NTO No.  2540-99-809-8968

Rover Kit  No.  395890

Ser. No.  10854  (typical) 

[bigduke6]

Thanks Ruxy, only ask as I’ve got a Larkspur C11/R210 set up ( needs work) and a Clansman set up , so depending what mood I’m in can load ip either. 

 

 

[ruxy]

8 hours ago, bigduke6 said:

Thanks Ruxy, only ask as I’ve got a Larkspur C11/R210 set up ( needs work) and a Clansman set up , so depending what mood I’m in can load ip either. 

 

---------------------

Load up both , fit a Larkspur slider port and a Clansman slider starboard , expert opinion at shows would be interesting.  Personally - I like to see a LWT specific Clansman front wing with a TUAAM  , I think the 'cross-over' adaptable box  for cable stowage - a bit of a mess although it has a historical place..

 

 

 

 

[bigduke6]

The experts would be in aghast if I open the bonnet, as it’s got a Diesel in (2.5 NA) ……

[ruxy]

27 minutes ago, bigduke6 said:

The experts would be in aghast if I open the bonnet, as it’s got a Diesel in (2.5 NA) ……

Have you seen the price of LR  Optional Parts  bonnet hasp kit - new or used  ?  Not even a Britpart PRC turnbuckle & shed hasp would be £ cheap.     2.5na  -  I have one in a 1961  civvy  109"  (Sherpa inlet manifod/filter) - bit noisy but with Fairey OD in from abt. 50mph to  70  LoL  little noisier than a 2.1/4 pet.   but I would not put one in a LWT.  Still it looks OK & most would not know it from a 2.1/4  diesel.

[Royal42]

On 9/24/2023 at 9:30 AM, bigduke6 said:

......I’ve got a Larkspur C11/R210 set up ( needs work) and a Clansman set up

Hello BD,

I am currently making a model kit of a Lightweight, to 1:35 scale, and would like to add a Larkspur set up in it.  The intention is to have a C11/R210 and a C42 fitted onto the radio cage.  I have forgotten how the C11/R210 is set up,  would it be possible for you to show some photos of your set up please?

The vehicle I plan to match.

The kit

3D printed radio cage

cheers,
Mike

[Mk3iain]

Looking good !

I still have good and not so good memories of operating in the artic ( around Bodo and Kirkenes) with series Land Rovers etc.   We always had chains on the rear of the lightweights and used them (helistart) to start Pumas in around -30 deg and lower. (Once had a bottle of 13 year old Glen Grant half frozen after a night in the outer linning of my sleeping bag.)   Never seen one with bar treads though. Have you seen the Accurate Armour wheels.   https://accurate-armour.com/aa-products/135th-land-rover-products/lra005

 

Look forward to seeing the finished article !

[Royal42]

Hello Iain,

the bar type tyres came with the kit; however,  I have sourced other types but after I had fitted the bar types.  I'll do another Lightweight later with correct Goodyear HiMiler tyres, as  in this image.

cheers,

Mike

Edited October 23, 2023 by Royal42

[bigduke6]

Mike, sorry for late response,, the C11/R210 had its own frames /mounting trays, I’ll try and get a pic of what the set up looks like , this would have then be secured to the radio table. There is a Radio Ham who has an outstanding Larkspur set up, if you do a search, ( Larkspur C11/R210 ) you should find a page which is part of QRZ 

The model looks excellent and the pics are very interesting, as the one of the rear with the antenna mast, trying to figure out which push up mast it is. 

[10FM68]

Certainly Dunlop Trakgrip tyres weren't common on Lightweights, but... never say never!

As I recall this was the Lightweight belonging to the OC of the Corps Lighting Troop RE.  (Credit to the photographer - I found the image a while ago on the web).  The funny colour is explained by the fact that it was about to go off on an adventure training trip to Norway!

More important, though, is getting the size right.  I see the Accurate Armour say that their replacement wheels are for, among others, the Tamiya ambulance model.  But the Ambulance would not have had 6.50x16s, they'd have been 7.50x16s.  7.50x16s weren't unknown on SWB military Land Rovers, but they weren't common and, on a model, don't quite look right.

Edited October 21, 2023 by 10FM68

[Larkspur-man]

Hi, 

I have a larkspur setup, including a C11/R210 - photos can be seen on my QRZ.com page, under my radio amateur call sign G3YVW. Note the C11 setup in the photo is my setup, that is they did vary slightly depending upon the vehicle/application. 
Also on my QRZ page are photos of a complete FV432 command post and FV433 Abbot radio comms setup, for those who may be interested! 

Brian

[Chris Suslowicz]

2 hours ago, Larkspur-man said:

Hi, 

I have a larkspur setup, including a C11/R210 - photos can be seen on my QRZ.com page, under my radio amateur call sign G3YVW. Note the C11 setup in the photo is my setup, that is they did vary slightly depending upon the vehicle/application. 
Also on my QRZ page are photos of a complete FV432 command post and FV433 Abbot radio comms setup, for those who may be interested! 

Brian

I'm missing the clamp for the ATU tray, there appear to be a couple of variants: this one (which covers most of the lower panel edge), and a short "chisel/scraper blade" block that's much narrower (about 50mm wide). Chris (G8KGS)

[ruxy]

On 10/21/2023 at 7:28 PM, 10FM68 said:

Certainly Dunlop Trakgrip tyres weren't common on Lightweights, but... never say never!

As I recall this was the Lightweight belonging to the OC of the Corps Lighting Troop RE.  (Credit to the photographer - I found the image a while ago on the web).  The funny colour is explained by the fact that it was about to go off on an adventure training trip to Norway!

More important, though, is getting the size right.  I see the Accurate Armour say that their replacement wheels are for, among others, the Tamiya ambulance model.  But the Ambulance would not have had 6.50x16s, they'd have been 7.50x16s.  7.50x16s weren't unknown on SWB military Land Rovers, but they weren't common and, on a model, don't quite look right.

The photograph is hardly clear but they seem a bargrip type ,  Dunlop Trakgrip were very common on Rover 1/2A  LWT  into early Series 3 days  , in fact more common than a bargrip & ISTR they were Solihull-ex. fitment. - Trakgrip were a BIG block tyre.

[10FM68]

You're quite right, Tony, I didn't mean Dunlop Trakgrip, I meant Good Year Bargrip - which was, after all, the point of the discussion and they are what are fitted to this example.  Quite why I made that mistake I have no idea.  But I am not sure the Trakgrip was any more common on Lightweights than Bargrips, though.  Trakgrips were very common on AFVs such as Ferrets, but the early Lightweights used Dunlop T29s which were of a very different pattern.  Interestingly, I have a photo showing HiMilers fitted to an RAF Land Rover in 1966 which seems very early to me.  We had our Bargrips replaced with HiMilers in the middle 70s, a decade later.  I've had a look through my photo library and I can't actually find any photos of Lightweights with Trakgrips - do you have any?  Here are a few photos illustrating the choices I have found: Bargrip & HiMiler on 00 18, Dunlop T29s on 38 11 and some Dunlop Trakgrips which were, I believe, for sale on this site at some time.  Finally, a Good Year Bargrip for comparison

Edited October 22, 2023 by 10FM68
Additional nonsense

[robin craig]

Royal 42 may I please use that winter picture e;elsewhere with credit to you please?

 

[Royal42]

8 hours ago, robin craig said:

Royal 42 may I please use that winter picture e;elsewhere with credit to you please?

Hi Robin.

Yes, no problem.  Here is another photo although not as clear.

cheers,
Mike

Edited October 23, 2023 by Royal42

[Royal42]

10 hours ago, 10FM68 said:

You're quite right, Tony, I didn't mean Dunlop Trakgrip, I meant Good Year Bargrip - which was, after all, the point of the discussion and they are what are fitted to this example.  Quite why I made that mistake I have no idea.  But I am not sure the Trakgrip was any more common on Lightweights than Bargrips, though.  Trakgrips were very common on AFVs such as Ferrets, but the early Lightweights used Dunlop T29s which were of a very different pattern.  Interestingly, I have a photo showing HiMilers fitted to an RAF Land Rover in 1966 which seems very early to me.  We had our Bargrips replaced with HiMilers in the middle 70s, a decade later.  I've had a look through my photo library and I can't actually find any photos of Lightweights with Trakgrips - do you have any?  Here are a few photos illustrating the choices I have found: Bargrip & HiMiler on 00 18, Dunlop T29s on 38 11 and some Dunlop Trakgrips which were, I believe, for sale on this site at some time.  Finally, a Good Year Bargrip for comparison

 

Thank you for the explanation of Land Rover tyres, it is a subject that I know very little about and need to learn more.

I now understand that my vehicle 15 FM 42 had Goodyear 6.50x16 HiMilers fitted at the time.

cheers,
Mike

Edited October 23, 2023 by Royal42
corrected brand name of tyre

[ruxy]

The Goodyear  HiMiler range had a small number of tread types that included the Extragrip  - one was used on Sankey trailers and had a taxi type tread (similar to other makes used such as Avon,Dunlop,Firestone).  Hi Miler  and Extra Grip  /  Xtragrip etc.  So as not t be pulled by the pedantic - I normally consult a Goodyear commercial catalogue (that I can't find just now along with Dunlop , I can only put my hands on 'time-line'  Michelin and Avon commercial catalogues).  To me the Trakgrip (spelling ? ) always looked the best tyre on a LWT ,  about 1990 the Michelin XCL crept in but more so with RAF Lightweights - they certainly looked good when new.  You only carried a single Extragrip spare and they were said to be non-directional as not marked, but the large V sipe is obvious if the wrong way ,  I have quite a few 6.50 Extragrip stored inc. a few new unfitted that are probably 30 + years old.  I have a fair supply of Range Rover type  205R16 that I find better on LWB  5.5"  rims.  Some are Vredstein IIRC but the best for snow are Austrian manuf.  Semperit (now owned by Continental).   I consider  XCL and Trackgrip a dual purpose mud/rock.   I suppose the MOD considered TA vehicles getting to the North German Plain on Extragrip a good idea, I consider Extragrip a mud tyre but not as extreme as a Firestone SAT.  Extragripe are hopeless on a wet grass slight slope and have done the odd 180 on public highways cornering on snow.  IMHO you should have had the Semperit  Hi-Grip or better still the Vredstein  Snow Star - in Norway .  Mark J. Cook's book   The  HALF-TON  Military Land Rover shows the common tyres used in time-line late 1960's to early 1980's / final disposals abt. Y2K.   btw   I am preparing some Semperit HI-Grip (reinforced) 205R16 (reinforced) new but abt. 20+ years old on new steel rims , the primer on rims is a poor holding primer only so it's extra agro removing it.  205R16 on a LR  90" had to be reinforced which makes them more or less a C  (commercial) rated. These Hi-Grip are going on 55KB92  (winterised).  New tyres are now  20580R16 - very near to the Classic Range Rover  Michelin and Pirelli  205R16 but alas just not quite the same , the rolling dia. is same (new) as a  6.50x16  & this size is now unobtanium new. I only have the four Hi-Grip new but have a pair of  1/3 worn for bonnet / tub  spares.  The LWT  winterised programme - is extending as just this year I have obtained new FFR starting battery boxes and another good complete (but take-off) winterisation kit and a few misc. new parts.  In the main it is hood modifications and as yet the "early"  LWT Ser.3 radiator blind (similar to S2A that I have) - if ever it existed.  Your pics. show a S3 rad. blind I was never even aware of used in service , yet compares well to some I had bade in Olive PVC coated steel that should have been corrugated for factory cladding.

[Mk3iain]

16 hours ago, ruxy said:

The Goodyear  HiMiler range had a small number of tread types that included the Extragrip  - one was used on Sankey trailers and had a taxi type tread (similar to other makes used such as Avon,Dunlop,Firestone).  Hi Miler  and Extra Grip  /  Xtragrip etc.  So as not t be pulled by the pedantic - I normally consult a Goodyear commercial catalogue (that I can't find just now along with Dunlop , I can only put my hands on 'time-line'  Michelin and Avon commercial catalogues).  To me the Trakgrip (spelling ? ) always looked the best tyre on a LWT ,  about 1990 the Michelin XCL crept in but more so with RAF Lightweights - they certainly looked good when new.  You only carried a single Extragrip spare and they were said to be non-directional as not marked, but the large V sipe is obvious if the wrong way ,  I have quite a few 6.50 Extragrip stored inc. a few new unfitted that are probably 30 + years old.  I have a fair supply of Range Rover type  205R16 that I find better on LWB  5.5"  rims.  Some are Vredstein IIRC but the best for snow are Austrian manuf.  Semperit (now owned by Continental).   I consider  XCL and Trackgrip a dual purpose mud/rock.   I suppose the MOD considered TA vehicles getting to the North German Plain on Extragrip a good idea, I consider Extragrip a mud tyre but not as extreme as a Firestone SAT.  Extragripe are hopeless on a wet grass slight slope and have done the odd 180 on public highways cornering on snow.  IMHO you should have had the Semperit  Hi-Grip or better still the Vredstein  Snow Star - in Norway .  Mark J. Cook's book   The  HALF-TON  Military Land Rover shows the common tyres used in time-line late 1960's to early 1980's / final disposals abt. Y2K.   btw   I am preparing some Semperit HI-Grip (reinforced) 205R16 (reinforced) new but abt. 20+ years old on new steel rims , the primer on rims is a poor holding primer only so it's extra agro removing it.  205R16 on a LR  90" had to be reinforced which makes them more or less a C  (commercial) rated. These Hi-Grip are going on 55KB92  (winterised).  New tyres are now  20580R16 - very near to the Classic Range Rover  Michelin and Pirelli  205R16 but alas just not quite the same , the rolling dia. is same (new) as a  6.50x16  & this size is now unobtanium new. I only have the four Hi-Grip new but have a pair of  1/3 worn for bonnet / tub  spares.  The LWT  winterised programme - is extending as just this year I have obtained new FFR starting battery boxes and another good complete (but take-off) winterisation kit and a few misc. new parts.  In the main it is hood modifications and as yet the "early"  LWT Ser.3 radiator blind (similar to S2A that I have) - if ever it existed.  Your pics. show a S3 rad. blind I was never even aware of used in service , yet compares well to some I had bade in Olive PVC coated steel that should have been corrugated for factory cladding.

On my Perentie I have 750 16 Hi-Miler Xtra grip and Custom Xtra grip it looks to be just subtle differences in the tread pattern.

 

[robin craig]

Mike can you interpret the words and numbers on the wood in front of the radiator please?

specifically the 611 TACP

the FAC i think is forward air controller.

what about the 1 and the red and blue square on the edge of the bonnet? The RM insignia and the Union Jack I get

 

[Royal42]

Hello Robin,

 

TACP = Tactical Air Control Party

FAC  = Forward Air Controller

Blue/Red vertical with the following numbers denote Royal Marines units:

1 = 3 Commando Brigader RM

5 - 41 Commando RM

6 - 43 Commando RM

7 - 40 Commando RM

8 - 42 Commando RM

9 - 45 Commando RM

19 - 3 Commando Brigade Air Squadron RM (3CBAS)

cheers,
Mike

Edited October 25, 2023 by Royal42

[bigduke6]

Mike, 

The pics you posted ( Lightweight in Artic colours) the one showing the rear with operator and the mast, is very interesting, I showed the pic to my mate as I wondered if the mast was the 27ft Larkspur one as it initially looked like it had the mast insulator in the bumperette, but looking at the bigger picture it has a mount that I’ve never seen before nor my mate, In a million to one chance he looked on the net and found one on eBay ( the mount and insulator) I have the full CES regarding the mast and double checked the CES regarding the mounting plate just in case, the one in your picture is a different sent up and looks to be made for the lightweight due to the offset and the clamping arrangement. 
 

The good news…. The one on eBay is on the way to me. 
 

don’t know if anyone else has seen that particular arrangement? 
 

 

 

[Chris Suslowicz]

The insulator is the standard "rocket" that comes with the 27-ft mast kit. The bumperette mount is two steel plates with an offset socket and (I think) rubber shock absorber insert to protect the insulator, secured to the bumperette with through bolts. The "side arm" clamps to the tilt hoop at a suitable height and (I assume) has an insulating sleeve in the clamp for the mast to allow it to be used as a vertical antenna. (Other options would be the elevated VHF antenna or the BE-1C vertical dipole (all of which are only really usable in a static role because you need the guys for stability (HF) and electrical properties (VHF)). 

 

Chris. (G8KGS)

(The VHF aerials are pointless for radio amateur use as they only cover the 6m (51MHz) band, are lossy, and a fiddle to set up correctly. The BE-1C will cover 30-60MHz without lowering for re-tuning, but is still only usable on 51MHz.)

[ruxy]

2 hours ago, bigduke6 said:

Mike, 

The pics you posted ( Lightweight in Artic colours) the one showing the rear with operator and the mast, is very interesting, I showed the pic to my mate as I wondered if the mast was the 27ft Larkspur one as it initially looked like it had the mast insulator in the bumperette, but looking at the bigger picture it has a mount that I’ve never seen before nor my mate, In a million to one chance he looked on the net and found one on eBay ( the mount and insulator) I have the full CES regarding the mast and double checked the CES regarding the mounting plate just in case, the one in your picture is a different sent up and looks to be made for the lightweight due to the offset and the clamping arrangement. 
 

The good news…. The one on eBay is on the way to me. 
 

don’t know if anyone else has seen that particular arrangement? 
 

 

 

You probably need to ask Mike to explain the stubby  'blade' antenna , I think that may be difficult to source.