Mark Ellis Posted August 29, 2023 Share Posted August 29, 2023 Would anyone know how many Salamanders the AFS had? And come to that, what evidence is there of numbers held by RAF? Did the RNAS have any? The only Army Salamander that I've ever seen is 52EK60, in NI role with water canon. But this first image shows it as a AFS fire engine. I also note that the tail end is square, compared to the RAF version being rounded. An RAF Crash It's also suggested that the RAF driver training vehicles had the number F.V. 653. Any evidence of that? Many thanks 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fv1609 Posted August 30, 2023 Share Posted August 30, 2023 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fv1609 Posted August 30, 2023 Share Posted August 30, 2023 Asset Code 2455-0065 Contract No. FV2522 If you google that you will just get Adidas golf shoes : ( 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Ellis Posted August 30, 2023 Author Share Posted August 30, 2023 2 hours ago, fv1609 said: Asset Code 2455-0065 Contract No. FV2522 If you google that you will just get Adidas golf shoes : ( Sadly, they appear to have been sold off around 1978, 8 years before Merlin was started, otherwise we'd have more info. I'm still trying to find evidence of the 651, 652, 653 variants. I do wonder if the 651 is the first Mk6, and then the 652 is the A - D This RAF book doesn't give an FV number Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fv1609 Posted August 30, 2023 Share Posted August 30, 2023 I've got some RAF pages that describe the differences between the Mks have you got that? If not I can scan them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Ellis Posted August 30, 2023 Author Share Posted August 30, 2023 1 hour ago, fv1609 said: I've got some RAF pages that describe the differences between the Mks have you got that? If not I can scan them. Some RAF types have offered up various things, and I've edited some pages that I found online Does yours look anything like thishttps://sites.google.com/view/alvis-stalwart-hmlc-files/alvis-salamander-crash-tender?authuser=0#h.shg8vqdstfll Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fv1609 Posted August 30, 2023 Share Posted August 30, 2023 That description in the 1966 catalogue originally appeared in the 1962 catalogue. There are a few more details of the differences of Mk in these pages from AP 278E Book 1. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Ellis Posted August 30, 2023 Author Share Posted August 30, 2023 28 minutes ago, fv1609 said: That description in the 1966 catalogue originally appeared in the 1962 catalogue. There are a few more details of the differences of Mk in these pages from AP 278E Book 1. Many thanks for the extract, Clive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fv1609 Posted August 30, 2023 Share Posted August 30, 2023 That FV 652 that appears in 1962 & 1966 catalogues appears in the 1956 catalogue as FV 651(A) with the same photo & description. There is also basic chassis catalogued. The 1954 catalogue shows an even earlier version as FV 6001 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Ellis Posted August 30, 2023 Author Share Posted August 30, 2023 @fv1609 Thanks for this, Clive. All adds to the history/development, which is where my own interest lies. Is the basic chassis a separate entry? Alvis seeing what else it could be used for. Hadn't realise that FV651 was also a private venture, according to an Alvis brochure that I'm retyping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fv1609 Posted August 30, 2023 Share Posted August 30, 2023 Yes the chassis has its own two pages straight after the full bodied FV 651(A) pages. Here is the FV 6001 entry for 1954. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Ellis Posted August 30, 2023 Author Share Posted August 30, 2023 1 hour ago, fv1609 said: Yes the chassis has its own two pages straight after the full bodied FV 651(A) pages. Here is the FV 6001 entry for 1954. Brilliant, thanks, Clive So this is FV6001 then, and not Alvis' prototype crash tender 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Ellis Posted September 2, 2023 Author Share Posted September 2, 2023 @fv1609, is there any listing in the FVRDE catalogues for FV651, as in without the A? Or even the FV653, which it's suggested is the Driver training vehicle. I'm presuming that you have a full set of catalogues from 54 to 66? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fv1609 Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 As time went on these catalogues became less frequent, I think I have them all. As far as Salamander goes: 1954 Nothing 1956 Two exhibits FV 651(A) complete vehicle & the chassis 1962 Runway Surface Friction Test Vehicle (no FV no.) & FV652 1966 You have this 1971 Nothing 1981 FV652 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wally dugan Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 That looks like the TILT PLATFORM at MVEE CHRISTCHURCH there is no establishment number to be seen so it would be hard to find any information 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Ellis Posted September 3, 2023 Author Share Posted September 3, 2023 2 hours ago, fv1609 said: As time went on these catalogues became less frequent, I think I have them all. As far as Salamander goes: 1954 Nothing 1956 Two exhibits FV 651(A) complete vehicle & the chassis 1962 Runway Surface Friction Test Vehicle (no FV no.) & FV652 1966 You have this 1971 Nothing 1981 FV652 I think they were out of service with the RAF by 78. Interesting that they're in the 81 book Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Ellis Posted September 3, 2023 Author Share Posted September 3, 2023 37 minutes ago, wally dugan said: That looks like the TILT PLATFORM at MVEE CHRISTCHURCH there is no establishment number to be seen so it would be hard to find any information Thanks for that, Wally As I understand it, Alvis got Coach builders Alfred Miles to put a basic body on the new Salamander chassis, and Pyrene to put some fire fighting gear in it, and showed it to FVRDE. Willie Dunn of course had a close relationship with FVRDE, having helped them with the 6x6 punt hull concept (Magazine article by his son confirms this. His son, Mike designed the Stalwart Mark 2). FVRDE liked the concept, gave it the number FV6001 - and Alvis's Salamander chassis got the green light for fire engine manufacturers to put their bodies and fire gear on - to the RAF Mark 6 fire engine spec. Is there absolutely any evidence of Foamite submitting their version to FVRDE? Foamite appear to have made 5 or 7 for South Africa, but the bulk of the Salamanders have Pyrene bodies on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wally dugan Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 In this case there is no starting point for me to start looking 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Ellis Posted September 3, 2023 Author Share Posted September 3, 2023 54 minutes ago, wally dugan said: In this case there is no starting point for me to start looking But then there's this - from 1962 Foamite Ltd., Victoria Road, Feltham, Middlesex, recently obtained the order to design and develop an entirely new light crash rescue truck for the Royal Air Force. The prototype passed all rough‐driving tests at Fighting Vehicles Research and Development Establishment and operational tests and a production contract was awarded by the Ministry of Aviation. Citation (1962), "Auxiliary Equipment", Aircraft Engineering and Aerospace Technology, Vol. 34 No. 1, pp. 29-29. https://doi.org/10.1108/eb033511 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wally dugan Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 (edited) Mark this how it works if a prototype vehicle went under tests it would have one of the following or even two a P prefix a SP NUMBER a service number a civilian number and or ESTABLISHMENT number any of these with this l can start also vehicles tested at CHRISTCHURCH some times went with none of these only to receive its' identity on return to FVRDE . There are hundreds of items listed in the ledgers in no order or type and in some case's not in date order Edited September 3, 2023 by wally dugan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Ellis Posted September 3, 2023 Author Share Posted September 3, 2023 6 hours ago, wally dugan said: Mark this how it works if a prototype vehicle went under tests it would have one of the following or even two a P prefix a SP NUMBER a service number a civilian number and or ESTABLISHMENT number any of these with this l can start also vehicles tested at CHRISTCHURCH some times went with none of these only to receive its' identity on return to FVRDE . There are hundreds of items listed in the ledgers in no order or type and in some case's not in date order Sorry for the late reply, @wally dugan I get that if vehicles are submitted for trials under a requested Specification, then they get a trial wing number and are "Trialled to death". But what happens when a known person or company says "Take a look at this for the day, and tell us what you think?" According to Alvis's Salamander brochure, the 6x6 fire truck was a private venture, the same as the Stalwart was. I've only ever seen the one Salamander with what I think is a Miles body, and wonder if Alvis waved it under FVRDE's nose. There must have been something for it to get the FV6001 number, and go into the catalogue, I guess. I don't have any Salamander wing numbers, but I have all these Stalwart "bits", which I've put on a spreadsheet. Excel sheet and PDF of the same as this image attached. Would be really appreciated if you had the time to take a look and fill in the blanks, please. Many thanks Stalwart wing numbers.xlsx Stalwart-Chassis-Number.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wally dugan Posted September 4, 2023 Share Posted September 4, 2023 (edited) here's some to go on with 24 EK 07 / 7045 24 EK 0O / 7068 24 EK O9 /7047 24 EK 69 7242 / PV 10 WAS THE COACHMAN on the subject of the FV 651 Chassis only there were two registration number 23 AC 63 / 5453 AND 23 AG 84 /5622 THE AC one may be a error and should be AG will sort out the others but suffering with grit in left eye Edited September 4, 2023 by wally dugan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Ellis Posted September 4, 2023 Author Share Posted September 4, 2023 Thanks for this, Wally. Hope the eye flushes out ok, one of my pet hates is grit in the eye. I thought 22AG54 might be in there as a trial vehicle. I also forgot 03EM79, which is mentioned in trial reports. Trial Report 101620 Jan-June 1964 (Mk1 Stalwart 03EM79) Many thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Ellis Posted September 4, 2023 Author Share Posted September 4, 2023 2 hours ago, wally dugan said: ... PV 10 WAS THE COACHMAN ... Does "THE COACHMAN" mean a model name, as in FV622 The Coachman - as in it was fitted with a canopy from factory. It's the only in service Stalwart that had a canopy - if you ignore all the REME 624s that had been modified in the field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wally dugan Posted September 4, 2023 Share Posted September 4, 2023 one thing l seem to remember FVRDE trade plates used TP no DU 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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