Italian 'elastico' Triumph 3HW, 1942

[Adrian Dwyer]

I am the proud owner of an elastico Triumph 3HW: elastico (to the uninitiated, such as me before I bought it) means the hard-tail is replaced by a swinging arm, from which the rear springs are compressed/extended laterally, not vertically, and are damped by means of friction dampers.  From its numbers, the bike seems to be an early Meriden 3HW from '42; and my assumption is that it went almost straight to Italy.  There is the odd spot of green so, again, I am assuming army and not the other services.  For those HMVF members still reading, it gets worse/more interesting depending upon your perspective.  The bars and levers are vintage Tommaselli, the electrics and headlamp are ancient and of 'continental' origins, and and the tank (with its enthusiastically hand-painted 'Triumph', in yellow) is made for the bike: but most other parts forward of the saddle seem to be 3HW (fe.g., clock, forks, brakes, frame).  The saddle was re-covered a very long time ago - judging by the dust and grime - with an Italian Army blanket, over the original canvas.

The rear end is a very substantial piece of Italian engineering.  Unlike Gileras of the period, the springs run under the engine (and not parallel with the road at saddle height).  I cannot identify the mudguards or toolbox but there is a hint of Gilera about them and they are substantial.  The rear lamp is vintage Aprilla and looks '60s.

The engine pulls very freely and I wonder what may have been done to it.  The Amal has been replaced, unsurprisingly, by a Dellorto of the period.  The exhaust downpipe is also substantial but I have no idea what the silencer would have looked like (not WD, I suspect and certainly not the modern expedient shown!).  My plan is to extend the pipe and end with a carp tail (in keeping with some other Italian bikes of the late 1940s).

Through the Sheldon's Emu site (worth a look) I know of two Italian companies in the immediate post-war years that majored on civilianising and elasticating the more common WD Matchless.  The Triumph has many similarities with ARMA and STRAM machines but no markings to prove which (if either).  So far, I have located much about 3HWs but nothing about the elastico conversion (if there is already a huge thread here, and I missed it, please let me know!)

The bike is undergoing a functional rebuild (mag, dynamo, electrics, brakes, oil pump, gearbox, primary drive, etc) but I consider its appearance a totem of social history!

If anyone would like to share a view, I would be delighted, genuinely, to hear it!

A

 

Edited August 3, 2023 by Adrian Dwyer
addition

[Noel7]

23 minutes ago, Adrian Dwyer said:

From its numbers, the bike seems to be an early Meriden 3HW from '42; and my assumption is that it went almost straight to Italy

The invasion of Sicily started 8/7/1943 and was completed 17/8/1943, the invasion of the mainland started 3/9/1943.

[Adrian Dwyer]

Afternoon Noel - yes, it would be great to track down exactly where it's been!  It's entirely possible it arrived in Italy via N. Africa, for example (the route my late grandfather took); but given the nature of the Italian campaign - and the preparations leading up to it - it seems reasonable that a '42 bike didn't see a lot of service elsewhere.  If I find out more details I'll certainly keep you posted.

Thanks again.

Yours,

Adrian

 

[rewdco]

7 hours ago, Adrian Dwyer said:

From its numbers, the bike seems to be an early Meriden 3HW from '42; and my assumption is that it went almost straight to Italy. 

Is it a contract C/13948 bike? In that case the census number can't be calculated. If it's a later contract bike we can calculate the census number which is based on the frame number. We may find a war time picture of your bike in Italy, or one that is close.

[rewdco]

Here's another elastic by the way... Well, this contraption is French, so it should be "élastique" 🤣

Edited August 3, 2023 by rewdco

[rewdco]

And another one...

Edited August 3, 2023 by rewdco

[rewdco]

And another one:

Did you know that the Italians had some engine tuning kits as well? The most famous one is Gruppo Velox:

[Adrian Dwyer]

Rewdco - these are brilliant pictures!  Thank you so much for taking the trouble to add so much to this thread!

Yes, you are correct re: the contract number - 13948: does this support the view it's a Meriden bike?

I had seen elastico on racing Gilera but never on French bikes.  I must look harder.  I have also been told that ARMA supplied frame kits as well as complete bikes.  There is no ARMA badge but, where it should be is shown in the attached picture.

Many thanks again.

All the very best.

A

[rewdco]

For as far as I know the C/13948 bikes were made in Meriden, but I'm sure somebody will correct me when I'm wrong on this one.

This contract was split up in a RASC batch (3366 bikes, census numbers C886687 - C890052), and a RAOC batch (2129 bikes, census numbers C4852001 - C4854129). Unfortunately, because of this split up, it is impossible to calculate the census number for a given frame number.

The two pictures below show a bike (with an experimental side car) from the RASC batch. 

And here's another one, could be Italy:

[rewdco]

This Italian job Matchless G3/L was for sale in Beaulieu (2012).

[Adrian Dwyer]

Morning again!  You wait years for a Triumph-based elastico to come along, and then three arrive simultaneously!  Those really are cracking pictures.  Do you think the bikes were civilian originally?

I am most taken by the  "élastique": all I can recognise as Triumph is the engine.  Am I interpreting the image correctly - the jerrycan panniers are the fuel tank?

You have now set me looking for the Gruppo Velox...

As  I said, thank you so much for your contributions.  Should any more images come to light, please do share.

Yours,

A

[rewdco]

I do have a Gruppo Velox article in a French 1950's magazine somewhere... Let me have a look...

[Adrian Dwyer]

Again, thanks for all of the above.  I have seen various Matchless conversions but your image has the best tank!  I am a little surprised it does not have the 'gentleman's apron'.  I am sure there is a more technical term for this piece of kit but I'm sure you know what I mean!  The WW2 images are also great.

Many thanks.

A

[rewdco]

Here's the Gruppo Velox article:

 

[rewdco]

Just noticed that the second WW2 picture has a "beeldbank" watermark. Which means that it was taken in Holland, not Italy...

[Adrian Dwyer]

Sadly, out of stock on Amazon...

[Adrian Dwyer]

4 hours ago, rewdco said:

For as far as I know the C/13948 bikes were made in Meriden, but I'm sure somebody will correct me when I'm wrong on this one.

This contract was split up in a RASC batch (3366 bikes, census numbers C886687 - C890052), and a RAOC batch (2129 bikes, census numbers C4852001 - C4854129). Unfortunately, because of this split up, it is impossible to calculate the census number for a given frame number.

The two pictures below show a bike (with an experimental side car) from the RASC batch. 

And here's another one, could be Italy:

As an aside, and a general question to all those more knowledgeable than me about the 3HW, does the clock seem right for a WD bike?  When I got the bike there was a 'spare' clock face in the truly ancient tool roll, printed on red acetate (or similar) and giving the speed in kilometres per hour.   I'm sure some clocks were changed but most of the images I have seen suggest the Smiths item was retained.  Any thoughts?

[rewdco]

Indeed, this is the "universal" Smiths speedo, as used by all WD bikes from 1941 (approx) onwards.

[79x100]

Indeed, the WD  "80 mph. Non-illuminated, non-trip"  with supersession numbers to indicate the various types fitted to earlier machines which it replaced.

I love the term "Elastico" by the way. Shades of "The Fast Show".

 

[Adrian Dwyer]

So, if 'elastico' is Fast Show (which it so clearly is, albeit used 70-years ahead), from where does the term 'gentleman's apron' come in relation to the material used to close the gap between the end of the tank and the beginning of the sprung saddle?  I'm thinking Harry and Paul? Oooh sir, suits you!  But clearly borrowed from an earlier era.

Thanks again for taking the time to fill the gaps in the history of the elastico 3HW.

Yours,

Adrian

[Adrian Dwyer]

On a more serious note, what is the official term for the 'gentleman's apron'?  And why do you see them on Italian bikes but not, to my limited knowledge, on British bikes of the '40s and '50s?

[Adrian Dwyer]

Forgive me if I have forgotten what I read on the numerous and fascinating 3HW threads of other members, but is it 'normal' for the five-figure frame number and five-figure engine number to be exactly 10000 appart on an early Meriden bike?

Many thanks again to all who have contributed to/enjoyed the elastico thread thus far!

A

[rewdco]

Apart from only a few bikes from the very first (RAF) 3HW contract C/12492, the engine number is always 10000 higher than the frame number. Don't know why...

[Adrian Dwyer]

17 minutes ago, rewdco said:

Apart from only a few bikes from the very first (RAF) 3HW contract C/12492, the engine number is always 10000 higher than the frame number. Don't know why...

Once again, thank you.  This is such an interesting and generous forum.  I wish I had found it earlier!

[Ron]

An interesting subject. Side valve engines were also modified with the Gruppo Velox kit (BSA M20's for instance.)

After the Triumph factory was bombed in 1940, temporary works were set up at Cape Warwick until the new permanent site at Meriden was open in 1942. I haven't as yet seen an exact date to say when production contracts commenced at Meriden though?

Here's my own 3HW from 1944.   Not to mince words! The canvas pad at the rear of the Vokes tank top air filter is known as a  "B*llock Protector"..... Ron😖