rewdco Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 (edited) I found this snippet in Captain J.J. Hall's scrapbook at the VMCC library. Captain Hall was writing for MotorCycling magazine from time to time, and EAB 332 was a works registration number that was issued on November 6th 1942 (which makes it a pre-production WD/RE). Sister bike EAB 456 was sent to Arthur Bourne at The Motor Cycle, who did an article on this bike in October 1943. But my question is: does anybody know in which issue from MotorCycling this picture was used? My guess is that this picture was published between November 6th (when the registration number was issued) and May 1943 (which was when production of the first WD/RE contract was being started). Has anybody got issues of MotorCycling from this period? Thanks for your help! Jan Edited November 5, 2020 by rewdco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welbike Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 (edited) I may have it, but going out of the door now, will check later, please remind me if I forget! Lex PS, I had it already on file! December 1943. (that's not what you wanted to hear I guess....) Edited November 5, 2020 by welbike additional info Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rewdco Posted November 5, 2020 Author Share Posted November 5, 2020 Thank you very much Lex! Now what is the Flea doing next to a 1939 AJS V4 racer...? Any chance of sending me the complete article? 😊 Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welbike Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 Yes, will do, when home again. Lex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Hall Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 Is that a military depot? Or perhaps training section? I wonder if the racer was impressed into service but was too nice to be painted green and kept as a trophy or maybe a fast ride trainer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welbike Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 (edited) It's not likely to be a military depot, the Flea, read above, was not in the military, but civvy registered, so must have gone to all sorts of places with bikes. Cheers, Lex Edited November 5, 2020 by welbike additional info Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Hall Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 I would have thought when that article was written, the only places to have that many bikes would be a manufacturer, a depot or in service. I doubt it’s Reditch as I don’t think they would be to happy at having a rivals bike in a photo so I assume depot or training and evaluation. Someone would have to train the trainers and evaluate the bike for its intended use. The article reads as if the other bike was loaned to the other chap for some time. Off topic but of interest, I watched a programme last week that showed Bren Carriers travelling through a town in the UK with civilian registration numbers. It’s the first time I’ve seen British armour with a civvy reg number, unfortunately they were head on so couldn’t see any census numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 Quite a few in Google images Chris, around 1938/9 Lots with the HMH prefix. Ron https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=1938+bren+gun+carriers&rlz=1C2CHZL_enGB780GB780&sxsrf=ALeKk03qjXUqapeG8vPeyH6j6dpUS7pq1w:1604600998527&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiezJfEhOzsAhURrHEKHf4nB40Q_AUoAXoECAYQAw&biw=1280&bih=625#imgrc=ZrWVVVTlB5ihnM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Hall Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 That may well be a still from the film I saw as it looks from memory the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welbike Posted November 6, 2020 Share Posted November 6, 2020 (edited) The AJS is owned by the well known Captain J.J. Hall (a relative Chris?) there's also a 1902 Matchless and a 1919 Scott, the Flea is also owned by the Captain, it's his private collection, and the Flea was used by him, to demonstrate it to the troops, it presumably was given by the factory, same as the one for Arthur Bourne that Jan mentiones above. so I have no idea where Captain Hall lived?? a quick internet search doesn't come up with much, except this, wonder who bought it 10 years ago??? https://www.lotsearch.net/lot/the-captain-j-j-hall-archive-1910s-1950s-40897975?perPage=80 There might be more in the VMCC library? Cheers, Lex Edited November 6, 2020 by welbike additional info Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rewdco Posted November 6, 2020 Author Share Posted November 6, 2020 2 hours ago, welbike said: The AJS is owned by the well known Captain J.J. Hall (a relative Chris?) Think so! Chris is also a Captain Hall! 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rewdco Posted November 6, 2020 Author Share Posted November 6, 2020 (edited) Serious now... There's definitely more in the VMCC library (that's where I found the snippet above). J.J. Hall was a regular contributor for MotorCycling, and it looks as if he was the custodian of EAB 332. We know that EAB 456 went to Arthur Bourne of The Motor Cycle, I'm pretty sure that the factory had a demonstrator for both weeklies. But Artur Bourne did a 5 pages article on the new lightweights in October 1943, while MotorCycling only used the bike for this small "article" in December 1943... What happened with both demonstrators between the registration dates (November 6th 1942 for EAB 332 and January 9th 1943 for EAB 456) and and the time that they were featured in the weeklies (October - December 1943)? I have no idea about EAB 456, but EAB 332 was tested by the Army as can be seen in the following pictures, and we can also see it in the hands of Tony Wilson Jones, the chief designer at Royal Enfields, standing in a group of Despatch Riders. And last but not least, we also see EAB 332 being checked over by several military people (Capt. Hall is standing in the middle) and a few civilians. Does anybody recognise the other people or the location...? Edited November 6, 2020 by rewdco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welbike Posted November 6, 2020 Share Posted November 6, 2020 Haha, that's funny! had not even noticed that! But I also have the Blue unes, so I can check those further, I do know there are many intersting articles by Captain Hall, and later in the war when he was in Belgium/Holland/Germany, he came across many strange bikes. Lex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rewdco Posted November 6, 2020 Author Share Posted November 6, 2020 (edited) Talking about Captain Hall... During the Spanish Civil War, the Republicans (socialists and communists) were fighting against the Nationalists (fascists). The Nationalists got a lot of support from Germany and Italy, but the other European countries did not really want to support the Republican Army... Nobody in Europe wanted to help the communists... Fact is however that the Republicans bought almost 1000 Royal Enfield Model J's through the Paris importer Pierre Psalty, and 500 Norton Model 18's through the Paris importer Lucien Psalty. But in the BSA ledgers there is all of a sudden a mysterious "Captain Ball" (very often with address "Paris", sometimes with address "London", and a lot of entries without any address at all, which is quite unusual in these ledgers) who bought hundreds of BSA M22's during the same period of the Psalty Enfields and Nortons. And we know from contemporary photographs that the Republicans also had lots of BSA M22's. One and one is two, I think it's not difficult to guess who Captain Ball was selling his bikes to... I have been wondering... Captain Hall... motorcycles... Captain Ball... Would it...???🤔 Edited November 6, 2020 by rewdco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welbike Posted November 6, 2020 Share Posted November 6, 2020 Well there certainly was a French connection! You should start a historical novel, about his exploits Jan! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rewdco Posted November 11, 2020 Author Share Posted November 11, 2020 (edited) Does anybody know where Capt. J.J. Hall was stationed during the war? I wonder if the picture below could have been taken at the RASC Officers' Training School in Bournemouth. The Lieut. Col. on the left is C.E. Bowden, inventor of the task system for the military vehicles, and head of the Bournemouth Training School. I wonder if Capt. J.J. Hall (4th from left, standing) also worked there? The man in a suit, kneeled at the left hand side of the Enfield, is also an officer, as can be seen in the pictures with the Welbike. I can't work out if he's also a Lieut. Col. or "only" a First Lieut. 🤔 Does anyone recognise this man? And could that be the entrance of the Bournemouth Training School in the first picture...? By the way, Capt. J.J. Hall started writing for MotorCycling on Feb 21st 1941. For several years he wrote articles about the vintage motorcycles that he had bought, and he was one of the founder members of the VMCC. Well, he even was their first President! Edited November 11, 2020 by rewdco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 I think it must be this place Jan. 2 miles from my house. I haven't worked out how to capture a street view image ?? TERRITORIAL ARMYT A Centre Drill HallWallisdown RoadPOOLEBH12 5AD Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rewdco Posted November 11, 2020 Author Share Posted November 11, 2020 Just had a look on StreetView Ron. Lots of modern buildings now, in an industrial estate. Do you think that some of the old buildings are still there? And do you think that the pictures with the wading DRs (carrying a Flea, a James and a Welbike) have been taken nearby? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 Maybe this one Jan. I delivered sand and gravel here when it was converted to apartments. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holdenhurst_Road_drill_hall,_Bournemouth Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rewdco Posted November 11, 2020 Author Share Posted November 11, 2020 (edited) I know that Lieut. Col. C.E. Bowden lived in the Southcliffe Hotel in Bournemouth around the time that the previous pictures were taken (end of 1942, early 1943). The postcard comes from the internet, "My room" are not Bowden's words! 😉 Edited November 11, 2020 by rewdco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Hall Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 I think This is the TA building Ron refers to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welbike Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 Interesting stuff guys!! I am about to order all the Stilltime pictures, this is an incredebly large amount of money, and that's why I have been putting it off for some years, but the prices are only going up, so If I have them, I can share them, if people are willing to pay some money for the scans. Cheers, Lex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 (edited) Jan there was another drill hall in Bournemouth that might fit the bill? (Wallisdown wasn't built till the 50's) https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/4464738 South Cliff Road is virtually gone due to road alterations and the construction of the Bournemouth Conference Center (BIC) But the hotel remains ....Renamed Park Central Hotel......Overlooking the Pier (I have branches all round the coast!!) https://www.booking.com/hotel/gb/park-central.en-gb.html We know that lots of pre D Day training took place around Studland and Shell Bay at Poole Harbour. (Fort Henry was built there and used as a safe viewing place for the King-Monty-Winston and Ike. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Henry_(bunker) Ron Edited November 12, 2020 by Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 I ride through this area regularly, and have been to a commemoration for those who drowned in the Valentine DD tanks. With the only surviving DD Vanentine http://www.bbc.co.uk/dorset/content/articles/2009/05/18/dday_exercise_smash_feature.shtml Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rewdco Posted November 12, 2020 Author Share Posted November 12, 2020 Thank you very much for your help Ron! But I'm looking for proof that the picture below was taken somewhere around Bournemouth. There are some gables visible just behind the (factory?) gates. I know it's a long shot, but we have found places on photographs with less than this... 😁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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