CVRT electronic ignition question

[sexton]

Hi, I'm working on a Striker and I would appreciate some information. I pulled the distributor cap to check the points and found electronic ignition. None of the manuals I have (up to 1976) talk about this ignition upgrade. The engine also does not have the pickup disks and transducer on the fan pulley to drive the tachometer that I've seen on other CVRTs.  So does the  tach on this vehicle use a pulse signal from the ignition module? Does the module include a rev limiter? Does the green light on the central warning module still light to warn of over-revving? I'm reluctant to free-rev the engine to 4700 rpm to find out.

We have a few Jag-engined CVRTs and I have watched people being taught to drive them. It is very common for novices to over-rev them and I assumed the subsequent popping and backfiring I heard was a rev-limiter kicking in. But when I read the manuals, I found there was no rev limiter on the points-equipped ones, just the green warning light. This made me cringe as I then assumed the popping and banging I was hearing was valve bounce. It would make me feel better to learn that our CVRTs had rev limiters built into their electronic ignition systems. 

And another question: when I pulled the oil fill cap on the right-hand cam cover with the engine running, I was surprised by the amount of oil held up in the head. It was about 1/2" deep on the low side. Made me think a head drain was plugged. Anyone else noticed this? 

Thanks,

Malcolm

 

[robin craig]

Malcolm I have some of the paperwork on this downstairs kindly provided to me by Sirhc and I will gladly copy it and send it to you, just do me a favour and use old school email and remind me as I can forget. 

 

[robin craig]

There may be some nuggets in here Malcolm, especially the one about the rev limiter fuse

 

 

[Diana and Jackie]

The J60 may or may not have points, some Belgian machines have points. If The J60 has got an electronic ignition module then it will also have a rev limiter built into the module that can be disabled by pulling a fuse which will either be on a fuse holder incorporated into the ignition coil (British Machines) or if a Belgian machine on a fuse holder adjacent to the coil.

The Rev counter is normally driven by a pickup mounted on the counter through which passes the ignition feed wire. The Rev counter  was made by Smiths Industries and is now unobtainable, through age it loses accuracy and can also lose linearity. because of loss of magnetism and the hairsprings becoming weak, as well as friction through wear in the movement bearings.

It maybe repairable, in the end I gave up with mine and fitted a VDO rev counter with a sensor off the fan, The VDO rev counter also has a hours run meter.

The diesel model CVRT uses the same VDO rev counter using a Honeywell sensor mounted on the flywheel sensing the flywheel starter teeth. A suitable sensor pickup point on the petrol engine is also the flywheel starter teeth, were in not for inaccessibility a more ideal sensor pickup point would be the rear of the engine crank toothed belt drive which has less teeth per revolution.

Anyone doing a conversion to a VDO stepping motor rev counter needs to consider the design of the sensor and it's maximum pulse output, since with too many teeth on the pickup point some sensors cannot cope with the frequency. Some sensors require power and others do not. The other considerations are the clearance between the sensor and the tooth or bolt head it senses as well as the cost of the sensor (The VDO magnetic sensor is astronomical in price) The VDO stepping motor rev counter is the most versatile of rev counters, will cope with most types of sensor and can be calibrated in situ.

Diana.

 

 

Edited March 12, 2018 by Diana and Jackie
Grammar error

[sexton]

22 hours ago, robin craig said:

Malcolm I have some of the paperwork on this downstairs kindly provided to me by Sirhc and I will gladly copy it and send it to you, just do me a favour and use old school email and remind me as I can forget. 

 

I would appreciate that, Robin. My searches showed various links to a PDF on electronic ignition, but they didn't work. I've sent an email.

Malcolm

[sexton]

Fantastic response, Diana. Thank you. 

Malcolm

[robin craig]

I found it and scanned it and emailed it to you Malcolm.

 

If anyone else wants these files please EMAIL me

 

 

[sexton]

Great information, Robin. Answers all my questions, except the one about why this Striker still has the green over-rev warning  light  on the central pod. I assume it's disconnected since the wiring diagrams you sent me don't show any connections from the rev limiter to the annunciation module. 

I've noticed at least one of our CVRTs still has the small disks and transducer mounted on the fan pulley to switch this green bulb on during over-revving. This indicates it still has points ignition. I've got to make sure the green light still works on this one and that drivers know what it indicates. Green seems a totally inappropriate colour! 

Thanks again,

Malcolm

[robin craig]

Malcolm,

 

Don't forget that your vehicles are somewhat of an amalgam of varieties. The Samson is actually a Belgian vehicle despite it's current pants scheme and wont have the electronic kit added most likely.

 

If you are any good at uploading the pdf files I sent you please post them n here for all others to see for now and forever, I am all for sharing the information just not a technical whizz kid to be able to do that. I am all for sharing and helping others, just nt able to do it, making a pdf is about the limit of my skills, I cant change the alarm on my digital watch!

Has the Striker been fitted with the pod as a dress up piece of kit or was it original? The answer is close at hand I just have to warm that part of my brain.

All the best

 

 

[sexton]

Here are the 4 pdf's Robin sent me, which have some great info on the electronic ignition. The last pdf is an amalgam of the four so a bit easier to read but its not great quality.

 

Robin, the rocket pod is original with the manual and motor-driven pumps for the hydraulic lift. 

 

Malcolm

 

cvrt electronic ign03.pdf

cvrt electronic ign04.pdf

CVRT electronic ignition tech data.pdf

CVRT electronic ign01.pdf

cvrt electronic ign02.pdf

[robin craig]

Malcolm,

 

I didn't phrase that very well, well I said the "pod" I meant the drivers warning display pod fitted external front left corner. I know the owner had a couple of repro ones done and wasnt sure which vehicle it was done to.

Malcolm, can you send me an email please?

 

 

Edited March 18, 2018 by robin craig